Shafted by pay 2000

Discussion in 'Int Corps' started by Invisible_man, Feb 26, 2006.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. This has probably been covered before.
    After transferring over to the glorious Corps as a Class 1 Tom, I attended my A2 and after completion did not receive an increment in my wages for my trouble. This again happened on my A1, which means that my peers are being paid 1 increment higher than me for doing the same job. Doesn't sound too bad, I hear you say.....Well I am out of pocket to the tune of £3000.00 as it stands. :evil:
    On looking into the matter, I was told I had already completed my class 1 in the INF as a grade 1 infanteer (A tom). All good but I had not done scbc or psbc which qualifies you for promotion in the INF. And then to be told that you will catch up at S/Sgt is rubbing salt into the wound.
    Not sure what to do about this or who to approach and was wondering if anyone else on here has come up against the same problems.
  2. The anwswer here is simple. The RAO are right in informing you that because you were already Class 1 qualified, you are not eligible for further increments as you have ALREADY received them in your previous employment. Transferees in the LR pay bracket who transferred after P2K should however, move from the LR to HR bracket at the SAME increment level on completion of OPMI2 (A rule which has subsequently changed).
  3. im not unsympathetic, having pay issues of my own. i find it surprising that you are being paid less than your peers, but that's the beauty of pay fuckup 2000 - it can shaft you in new and interesting ways that they have only recently invented.

    i know it is little consolation (trust me) but as you are now a full screw(? i am assuming, you don't say), you are at least better paid (and will probably be promoted faster) than you would have been had you stayed in the inf.

    presumably when you qualified to A1 infanteer you got an increment rise (or two) then? so had the extra 2 or 3 quid a day for however long it was you stayed there, and were obviously far better paid than your direct-entry peers, when you were going through your trade training at chicksands?

    it's typical of the army to change the rules and make it so you miss out - i never received either the 5 or 8 year bonus, both of which were in the terms and conditions of service when we signed on the dotted line in that ill-fated period in 1990.

    having said that, i like backpay 2000 right now, cos i just got over three grand in backpay and went up 3 points on the scale, as they changed the rules (on moving from a lower band trade to an upper), realised i had been incorrectly paid for the last 3 years, and stuck it in the bank as a nice surprise. pity it was all taxed at 40% as a result of getting it in one big lump sum, otherwise i would have got about £800 more... :roll:

    looking at the pay scales, it seems to me that as long as none of them are above increment 5 as a Cpl, they will go to sgt at level 1. just like you. so if you both get promoted the same day, you will then be getting identical pay.

    once they get to Cpl level 6, on promotion they should go to Sgt 2 (because they must have at least a 2% pay rise). so i can't really see why it will necessarily take till SSgt to 'make it up'.

    believe me mate, you and your peers will no longer be promoted at the same time from now on! promotion will be a far bigger financial factor for you than the odd increment here or there. come back and moan when your peers have been promoted years ago.

    but to answer your implied question... don't think there is anyone you can approach. they will just say TSB mate. sorry.
  4. 2 observations

    1. You didn't ask about this before transfer-understandable as you wouldn't have known what questions to ask-though you might have asked about any general implications.

    2. No one in your chain of command thought to ask for you or promt you to ask the correct questions-that is less forgivable.

    Still as CR points out you remain better placed than where you were and presumably are happier than before.
  5. Lo Mate.

    Unfortunately most of the posts regarding this have been/are correct - though the majority fail to identify underlying problems with pay2k or indeed the finite details.

    I was in exactly the same boat and to cut to the point we along with countless others have been stiffed by pay 2k. Yes granted we were class one infanteers before coming over to the corps but (in my case at the time of pay 2k transition) no one had a clue about the band changes, IDD etc. Its all well and good saying "you should have asked" or been prompted but in the real world how many of us have been given F6 info by the CoC... and more to the point how many Adj/RAO/RAWO know pay 2k inside out and the nitty gritty details? Then we a told by some bright spark - oh you should of asked before you transferred. Really - oh thanks for that. Any way rant(ish) over.

    In my case I submitted a formal case to PS10A including all previous pay details and the implications - as you outline of not qualifying for IDD and at my time of transfer (Lance Jack) the forecast loss of earnings worked out to be ITRO 5k (to date are roughly correct.)

    PS10A replied in no great length to the effect that the pay2k figures were correct and hard luck son - but never mind you've already been a class one and therefore don’t need to worry about being a class 1 Int Corps..... Cue a letter from my OC.... Response from PS10A - bit more detail - acknowledge Int Corps Class 1 are Sgt - and I will need to "requal for class 1" but wont qual for a IDD.

    In a nutshell you won’t get the IDD no matter how hard you try..... pay 2k you gotta love it. NOT.

    I recall this being brought up at my class 2&1 forums and the response from DINT was "its being investigated and the information will be incorporated into the (as it was then) JSP - Voluntary Transfer to the Int Corps." To my knowledge it never was.... Probably explains why years down the line people are still finding out the hard way. Int Corps Admin at its finest again....

    I Love the Corps and the Corps Loves Me :D

  6. you're right, it should be highlighted by the chain when you apply for transfer. perhaps it could be used as a retention argument for people they don't want to lose to the int corps? but nobody transferring could reasonably have been expected to anticipate that particular shafting; its a complex issue and that's why we have pay-wallahs.

    so i would think the blame lies largely on the pay office at your losing capbadge, who should have advised you of this at the time.

    still, you've now got the opportunity to progress faster and wear the smartest mess-dress in the British Army :roll:

    to those affected though, ask yourselves this question, and answer honestly:

    if you had known about this pay anomaly when you were applying for transfer, would it have stopped you?
  7. Probably still would of transferred over, however it still grips my S*&^, that and the SNCO cadre!
  8. fair enough. sure it won't be the last (or the biggest) thing that grips your sh*t in the corps :)
  9. True on nearly all accounts - but - its all well and good "popping in" or formally requesting this particular pay info from the RAO prior to the transfer but that assumes they (the CoC) are aware of it in the first place. Additionally, as we all know there is a sizeable percentage of the AGC and even worse those arrogant civvies that are creeping into the establishment that are incapable of providing the time let alone accurate pay advice, so unfortunately many a potential transferee is mis advised or as the case seems to be not advised at all, and would the Corps really publish info about the IDD on literature for transferees?

    Nevertheless, this issue should be included in the current DIN or be explained at Chickers when having the various interviews..... But in answer to your question wouldn’t have stopped me and I suspect that’s the same for the majority in the same boat. I do however do believe that FAS and the hundreds of additional bods will adversely affect promotion - especially for the JNCOs that are being spat out of Templar. That however could spawn a whole new thread.....

    And I love my mess dress its great..... at fancy dress parties.

  10. do you think as transferees, with a broader military background, that you are more promotable than DEs? because being promoted is sure going to make up for the odd increment here and there.

    i honestly don't know how promotion of transferees and DEs compares - maybe nobody considers or analyses that sort of thing :)
  11. Hmm potential to stir up a hornets nest here, IMO it depends on the individual and what he/she (ooh check me out very PC) brings to the party - On the one hand transferees are generally better equipped (mil skills/ mil experience etc) and therefore are able to utilise those skills to their benefit to "shine" Note at this point there is a clear difference in transferee standards some apply these skills as you would expect - to assist and develop others. However, there are those out there that develop superiority complexes and are simply out there to shaft all and sundry IOT get that all important tick in the box - T$*ts.

    Conversely DE's with no mil experience can and do prove themselves as capable from the corps prospective.

    The advantages as I see it is that the transferees already have that "time served" element which puts them slightly ahead in the stakes, although what with the harmonisation and new CR requirements this may change. Another advantage is the "specialised" previous experience be it General Int related or in a specialised field in this case these individuals will clearly be better at their jobs than the DE's and the other transferees without the Int experience and therefore more likely to pick up ahead of their peers.

  12. Int Corps PD3

    "Pay. It is the responsibility of the potential transferee to discuss the pay implications of transferring with their own pay staff. "

    I'm sure the recruiting Offr/Sgt would also have explained this to the potential transferee.
  13. youre very generously assuming that his staff were as switched on as you in finding that reference, reebrov ;)
  14. True, however, as a former transferee, and through knowing quite a few who have transferred, we do not jump into the transfer 'feet first' . The first thing I looked at was the implications to my family and career. i.e pay, promotion (good or bad). If it was more on the bad side then i would not have come across.

    You make a choice and live with it in my opinon. If you don't like what u get at the other side then put up or shut up.
  15. just out of interest, how many transfer OUT of the corps...?