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Sf to be hit by cutbacks

Mincer

Old-Salt
Battalion?

We would be happy to take them on if they pass P Coy. We have a spare fire team of PIDs that needs filling.

Surely having done TA SF selection, most will already have their wings. Not to mention TA commandos dont require P coy for jumps so i hardly think TA SF need to. Just saying.....
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
as I understand it - 21 sas is a corps from when it was kept as a TA coy post ww2 so it has to exist to be able to create more of 'them'.

just create a giant SAS brigade like it used to be with a few special bits tucked away so it retains capability but nobody knows by how much.

SBS works well as super sneaky super special marines and should stay that way IMO
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
as I understand it - 21 sas is a corps from when it was kept as a TA coy post ww2 so it has to exist to be able to create more of 'them'.

just create a giant SAS brigade like it used to be with a few special bits tucked away so it retains capability but nobody knows by how much.

SBS works well as super sneaky super special marines and should stay that way IMO

Or just have a Regt + that combines the various specialities from the SAS, SRR and SBS?
 
Or just have a Regt + that combines the various specialities from the SAS, SRR and SBS?

Or as Ken Connor put it in his book - 'Ghost Force'. Well you get the idea..............
 
"One High Command and one clear , strategic thought process....." Nope. Too novel. Never catch on. Every unit must respond to at least two seperate Chains of Command while also receiving mutually contradictory information from at least half a dozen other tentacles of "the system".
 
If SAS want to save money they should restrict the amount of live rounds they use daily in the killing house.

An average trooper can go through 500 rounds in just one session in the killing house.

Actually, with the cuts were getting more ammunition individually. We now get 671 rounds per day, every day.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
Surely having done TA SF selection, most will already have their wings. Not to mention TA commandos dont require P coy for jumps so i hardly think TA SF need to. Just saying.....

Unless they have already done so they have to join the recruit cadre for CIC and crack on with P Coy which is the entry requirement for the Parachute Regiment (rather than the entry standard for the basic Para course). Just saying...
 

Eggbanjo

War Hero
We had blokes from 21 and 23 on attachment for an NI tour in 1988, couple stayed on after and to my knowledge never went anywhere near depot or P Coy...different times I guess.
 
Unless they have already done so they have to join the recruit cadre for CIC and crack on with P Coy which is the entry requirement for the Parachute Regiment (rather than the entry standard for the basic Para course). Just saying...

and you wonder why TA lads say "f**k that" when given that choice after 6 months on tour..........
 

Eggbanjo

War Hero
Threads a bit diverted but if they fancy coming over to Para Regt they should be treated like blokes in PF who transfer, pretty sure they dont do P Coy or CIC. Basic phys and skills tests on getting to Battalion etc. should be enough.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
Most of those we see from 21 have either dropped out before passing (ie they are untrained) or have passed the endurance phase but before they complete continuation training, and therefore in many cases have the military skills of a damp Sunday newspaper.

The part that some people seem to miss is that be hold an Inf PiD you need to have passed the relevant Inf course. Being a fit bloke who can map read does not give you a waiver in this day and age of training records and 'elf n safety. As EB says, different times.

Of course, if Brazier loses and they do send 21 back into the mainstream TA I am sure we can sort out some sort of validation system - introduce them to a barber, show them an iron, have their Rab jackets surgically removed, teach them the badges of rank and then show them how to conduct basic field skills ;-)
 
I'm under the impression that numbers were ramped up to meet and sustain the "Industrial CT" policy that was put into play over a number of theatres. If those commitments are wrapping up then it's too easy for the bean counters to demand numbers mirror that.

That said, it would also be nice to see that reflected by a change in posture and expectations of our leaders. Coming off the back of Libya, now Mali and with Syria and an increasingly unpredictable Iran on the horizon then I think it's only fair to ask why we are decreasing one of the few parts of HM Forces that has come out of the last few campaigns with their credibility intact.
 
Because we are skint and are not running two manpower intensive ops simultaneousy anymore so the forces brought in or extended to plug a hole are being moved on now there is no hole to plug. Seems understandable to me.
 

Mincer

Old-Salt
Unless they have already done so they have to join the recruit cadre for CIC and crack on with P Coy which is the entry requirement for the Parachute Regiment (rather than the entry standard for the basic Para course). Just saying...

Are we suggesting the entry standard is higher for the parachute regiment than it is for TA SF?

Not to mention i was under the impression TA para's didnt do the 20 miler during P Coy (this could be out of date apoligies if so, but heard this from a menber of 4 para approx 2 years ago. Due to time getting to Brecon and what not during a 2 week course ran at ITC).

I can completely understand a non/partially trained member of 21/23 requiring to do the entirety of your training. But surely a fully trained member one of 21/23 shouldnt require training, surely their training would could cover for a bog standard inf PiD.
 

jim30

LE
Given we are supposedly streamlining chains of command, why in gods name do we need three 'Bn' level formations with SAS in the title, except to make politicians get funny feelings in their willy when talking in Parliament?
I am all in favour of keeping links for the very small number of individuals who have time to do selection, train to a good standard, deploy, and repeat ad nauseum, but surely this number is vastly smaller than the ones on theoretical strength? Would it not be easier to restrict entry to UKSF to a similar way to the DHU - e.g. take up an FTRS contract for trained soldiers only, pass selection, complete training, do a job, and at end of three years either return to civvy street or re-engage?
Why keep on two 'regiments' which have seemingly struggled to add real operational value, when a simpler solutiion is to take those who can pass selection and use them to bolster regular strength for a specific period of time?
 
Because we are skint and are not running two manpower intensive ops simultaneousy anymore so the forces brought in or extended to plug a hole are being moved on now there is no hole to plug. Seems understandable to me.
Point being made above is about political uncertainty around the globe... bit like 1981 and all those cuts they were dreaming up...

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The_Duke

LE
Moderator
Mincer,

The point is that the training is different. Without getting into the individual training records of every UKSF (R) soldier, how would you know that they should be carried across?

As I said earlier, if there is a move to bring them across en mass then I am sure that there will be some planput in place. At the moment we see the failures, those unable to commit the time and those sent away to get some military experience and they need to pass the relevant courses. I have not seen any fully trained soldiers attempting to transfer over. I am not convinced we would if these proposals come into force.
 
One thought remove SBS from the Navy and in to The Army call it let's say SABS.
21 and 23 Combine and finaly the Rece reg combine with the RAF Reg?
 
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