Sexual Harrasment

I think very few women when held hostage or having been dragged down a dark alley EXPECT to be raped. They may EXPECT to be assaulted and FEAR it could be of a sexual nature. This may be a small detail, but it makes a big difference.

Sorry, haven’t figured out the quote thing yet.
 
I was reading in the Times today an article about 1 in 10 women cadets saying they have been raped or suffered sexual assault at Westpoint. That would have been the equivalent of 4 girls on my RMAS course.........I think we would have known about it if they had. Is this something to do with the difference in Uk and USA military culture, do you think?

BTW Exmarine, the likelihood is that your compadre was raped by 'straight' men, not homosexuals........agree with the rest of your post, though.
 

sittingstress

Old-Salt
Girl on Green, the small point you are making unfortunately is not valid. The majority of women who have been subjected to a situation where they are held against their will have categoricaly stated that they expected to be raped.

I too am of the "hang 'em high" brigade Ex Marine. Your post about your reaction to this guy was very typical of the way that peers (especially males) cope with the scenario you describe. Hindsight is 20/20 vision and no doubt after reading this thread and possibly having discussed it a little more in the crewroom you may have been able to talk about it if he wanted to. Saying that there was a 5 year time lapse so saying nothing was more than likely the best course of events.

In a nutshell I reckon that we all need to be made more aware of cross-gender issues of this nature. It can't hurt to natter about it, can it?

Per Ardua

PS Time for controversy now!

The point about ladies "asking for it" owing to the way they dress. UNder no circumstances whould ladies be blamed for a rape just because there dress is revealing. There is no excuse for rape. However, surely risk management and common sense must be applied. Clubbing kit is great, but in order to get home how about a long (yet stylish) coat, or make sure you are never on your own in said revealing clothes. In a perfect world we could all wear what we liked in order to make ourselves look great, feel great and flaunt what we have, BUT this world is not perfect and there are goobers willing to attack. My point is; wear what you like but be careful and gain situational awareness.

My CBA is on and Kevlar helmet secure, standing by for onslaught!!

Per Ardua (again)
 
LOL SittingPretty, don't worry, no-ones going to chew your balls off!! Well, I'm not anyway. I think your advice is thoroughly sensible. And it doesn't apply to me anyway because I'm far too ancient to be going clubbing........... ;)

Although I did walk through Dublin in the early hours last year, very drunk and very angry.........and I knew it wasn't a good idea at the time.............mind you, if anyone HAD jumped me, the mood I was in, I would probably have killed them........

But while we're on the subject, aren't most rapes perpetrated by a partner or by someone the victim knows? What's everyones' view on that? I certainly know a woman who had to continue giving her husband his 'marital rights' whilst she was trying to leave him - and if she didn't he flew into a screaming rage and started tearing the house apart..............

(sorry to be ignorant, but what does Per Ardua mean?)
 

sittingstress

Old-Salt
Per Ardua is the motto of the amazing RAF Regt!!! It means "Through Hardship"

The sad irony is that the thread on the RAF really slates us Rocks for being thick and dim. Makes me wonder how many members of her Majesties finest royal Army could have held such a sensible discussion  ;D

I cannot make any factually based comment regarding the closeness of rapists to their victims as my "thing" is captivity; PWs or hostages.

Per Ardua
 

Exmarine

War Hero
"Through Hardship" LOL

Thats like calling a pig pretty, must be a nitemare guarding Aldergrove and not X.

Sorry for changing the subject but that motto is taking the piss.

Chris
 
Much respect for the rock apes. They have a hard job putting to use all the kit they get. Whats the point? They are like the RAF equivilent of paras. Look good with all the gucci kit but feck all use to anyone?
 

sittingstress

Old-Salt
And so it begins......... ;D

The thing is, I am too old to get involved in a "my willy is bigger than your willy" competition. If you really want to get some slagging material on us though ask us about the quality job we did at Marham, Honington, Molesworth and Bruggen. Now THAT was arrse!!!

Anyone want to continue the rape thread or have we descended into the usual?

Per Ardua

PS Admittedly our field Squadrons do get loads of great kit. I work for a joint services unit whichis headed up by the army, now there is a good stores system NOT. They wanted me to pay for a beret and so far I have been issued a mini-maglite, and that is for looking up peoples bums with!!
 
Amazing what you can find up people's bums..........I once found a whole family of terrapins whilst looking up Jamspanglers wife's Sh*t Shute!!  Jeez, she was manky :eek:
 
Get in touch with Jamspangler, see if his missus will let you have a go at hers...........ring piece like a burst blood orange!  Manky!! :eek:
 
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error_unknown

Guest
The point about ladies "asking for it" owing to the way they dress. UNder no circumstances whould ladies be blamed for a rape just because there dress is revealing. There is no excuse for rape. However, surely risk management and common sense must be applied. Clubbing kit is great, but in order to get home how about a long (yet stylish) coat, or make sure you are never on your own in said revealing clothes. In a perfect world we could all wear what we liked in order to make ourselves look great, feel great and flaunt what we have, BUT this world is not perfect and there are goobers willing to attack. My point is; wear what you like but be careful and gain situational awareness.
Wouldn't it be great if it was as simple as this?
Yet women in their eighties get raped, so do men; it's not about how tartily you are dressed.
It's not helpful to link it in this way..some men will rape however you look.
I don't go walking alone in the countryside because if I did , yes, I would expect to be raped.
Instead of us expecting women to alter their dress...hey lets all cover up like in Saudi so that men won't be tempted!..... perhaps in this women hating male world men who rape should be dealt with more severely..

I was attacked after a night out with my then husband when I was a pretty young thing.

I was dressed modestly with a calf length dress and a high neck..I specifically remember this because the Police were careful to include the information in the statements...which actually has always disturbed me....if I had had my mini skirt and low cut top on instead that night..would I have been considered to have invited the assault? But my face would still have been lovely so perhaps a long dress and a veil to stay safer??

I left my husband briefly to go to the trains cloakroom and was attacked as I left the toilet....my ex(a policeman at the time-yes the little shit picked the wrong woman ha ha ha ) held him..arrested him and he went to prison.

I was treated badly along the way by many people..the man who i begged for help who simply walked off...the perpetrators brother who was the train guard who refused to help ...the station guards who wouldn't get the police leaving me to have to run through station tunnels late at night to try to get the police from a call box...the other passengers (one woman only was supportive), the police who didn't comfort or talk it through...British Rail who didn't contact me about it...The Transport police who didn't either...my ex husband who never mentioned the incident again...

There is only one thing that matters in this situation (apart from securing evidence and adhering to the correct legal procedure and meeting standards of care) and it's the victim of the attack and their needs.

Each individual victim must be treated individually.
Once general assumptions made on research and statistics are applied individually you have lost the game.
Assuming how someone should feel because they fit into certain groups is flawed and assumptions and judgements will alienate and upset the victim.

No one knows how the person will feel till it happens.
If i was raped at different times and by different types of people and in differrent situations...my feelings and reactions would vary enormously. But they cannot be predicted acurately.

And my recovery and ability to overcome would be helped or hindered most of all by the responses of those around me.

There is a danger with experts in any field of becoming like the doctor who argued for several seconds with me over how many children I had ..and their sexes because it was written in front of him.. so it must be so..until he realised that perhaps I could actually know what kids I had!

ok ramble over! ;D


 

sittingstress

Old-Salt
Two things;

1. This is not a woman hating man's world at all. A sweeping generalisation that is crap. There is not much that winds me up but statements of that nature are guaranteed to do it. It is fashionable for the new blokettes to have a dig at us men but remember that you are tarring a massive majority of good men with a very nasty, evil brush.

2.  Your point that, "My recovery and ability to overcome would be helped or hindered most of all by the responses of those around me." echos exactly my previously aired sentiments.

Per Ardua
 
Thank you for the explanation of Per Ardua SS.

"My recovery and ability to overcome would be helped or hindered most of all by the responses of those around me." echos exactly my previously aired sentiments.
I don't think there is very much any of us disagree on - but what not many of us know is how to communicate with someone effectively after they have suffered this kind of attack. If this is an area you have some professional expertise in, do you have any general advice to offer those of use who have friends/might in the future have friends who we may find ourselves trying to help?
 
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error_unknown

Guest
Please don't imagine that I was disagreeing with your posts- I wasn't. It's marvellous that such care and thought is being put into this issue.

Two things;

This is not a woman hating man's world at all. A sweeping generalisation that is crap. There is not much that winds me up but statements of that nature are guaranteed to do it. It is fashionable for the new blokettes to have a dig at us men but remember that you are tarring a massive majority of good men with a very nasty, evil brush.
One must consider that if women in england (and I'm suspect I am not in the minority) do not feel able to go walking alone in their own countryside that there is something very wrong

A man walks freely and it wouldn't cross his mind that he would be attacked...apart from by the odd dog.

Only a rare woman would roam at will...and if women don't feel safe in their own land ..and expect to be raped when out and about.... and therefore have a lifetime of viewing any approaching male as a possible threat...the idea of this being a women-loving world wears a bit thin. Nothing to do with blokettes..it's to do with the countryside two miles away that I simply don't feel safe to enjoy.
 
A man walks freely and it wouldn't cross his mind that he would be attacked...apart from by the odd dog.
Another sweeping generalisation.  You may be interested to know that the most common individual to be attacked on the streets of Britain is:

1. Male.
2. 18 - 25.
3. Black.
 
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error_unknown

Guest
We are mostly talking about statistics and things in general terms are we not?

There is perhaps a gap between percieved threat and actual risk.
Previously we have seen that women expect to be raped..it doesn't mean it will actually happen.

GENERALLY A man  going  for a walk in the countryside would not expect the attack that he might expect in a town. no?

What a woman percieves IS valid..and (in my opinion) women GENERALLY do not feel safe alone in remote areas.
 

sittingstress

Old-Salt
Time to be blunt:

BB open your mind, take the blinkers off. I walk down streets and think to myself, 'Hold on, am I gonna get jumped here?' There are many streets and places I will not go for precisely the same reasons that you don't. I will be even bolder here now; perhaps it is you that has the man problem? What happened to you was inexcuseable and I will never make any effort to justify or defend that man's actions but does that mean you have to wander around with a chip on your shoulder. I told you there are few things that annoy me but this is one of them. I am offended by your opinon about men in general as you are including me in that statement.

Would you agree that all niggers are robbing , drug-dealing coons? No-one disagrees about the inaccurate vitriol delivered in such a bigoted statement. Yours is just as bad but because it involves men instead of colour it is deemed socially acceptable. I most certainly do not find it so.

I am definately not a proffesional when it comes to how to act Prodigal but, I am fortunate enough to have heard many personal accounts, and been paid to research the subject. The only advice I can give you is this:

whatever way the victim wants to deal with it (and my experiance is purely in the immediate time period after the event) is the correct way. Help and support. Bring them back into the group and ensure they have a feeling of sel worth and dispel any self blame they might be feeling. Normalisation without ignoring the event is the way ahead. Again I stress I ahve no professional qualifications whatsoever. This advice is drawn mainly from victims themselves.
 
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error_unknown

Guest
The fact of the matter though is that women EXPECT to be raped in certain situations whereas men do not.
I am just agreeing with your own statement!
Women expect to be raped in certain situations...such as being out alone on a walk in a remote place.
So I, having that fear, don't go out for walk alone in remote places.

On the one hand you appear to be saying that women expect to be raped yet when i say 'yes i fear' it accuse me of having  a problem with men!

I know most men are decent, but if men are wary about men approaching them in case they are attacked..so are women..and because we expect the attack to be sexual in nature all men approaching  us in remote places have to be quickly assessed as to the likehood of them being an attacker. It's no different.

Women are making judgements all day long about how safe she feels with particular men. It's an unspoken part of our lives and nothing to do with a chip on my particular shoulder.
Most men rapidly pass the assessment and we relax...but the radar stays on.

There is no bigotry against men in this merely a natural instinct to keep safe..it's an subconcious risk assessment...much as men have when encountering possible aggro from other men.

 

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