Serving in Iraq killed my faith in God

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by RP578, Aug 30, 2010.

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  1. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    Don't know if this should really go in the 'Are You Religious?' thread, but it struck me as a thought-provoking article and I wonder if any others have had a similar journey to disbelief. I've been a devout non-believer since my late teens and Iraq and Afghanistan didn't affect that in any way, but I do often wonder how religious people reconcile their beliefs with the suffering of the world. As an Atheist myself, I think his article ends on a pretty upbeat note, but perhaps other people will have a different take on it.

    Serving in Iraq killed my faith in God | Adnan Sarwar | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

    Here's a snip with a conversation he had with Luke Allsopp a fellow Sapper who was later KIA.

     
  2. It will be interesting to note if Mr Sarwar has any backlash from his family & former Muslim friends as it is considered to be an absolute no no to leave the Islamic faith, possibly resulting in death threats!!
     
  3. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    Yeah, especially being so public about it. I know a few blokes who would call themselves Muslim if asked, but amongst friends will admit that they left the faith. Though I don't think that they'd announce it to their families never mind the great British public c/o the national newspapers.
     
  4. FORMER_FYRDMAN

    FORMER_FYRDMAN LE Book Reviewer

    Why is it an automatic philosophical tenet of the feeble-minded that, if bad things happen, there can be no God? Whatever happened to free will and the requirement of evil for good to exist? It's all the fault of the namby pamby C of E.
     
  5. It also says he did two tours in Iraq. The chap's probably good at handling those 'awkward' conversations.
     
  6. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    Perhaps he took the view that an omnipotent God that allowed such suffering to occur wasn't worth worshiping? Either way, given that he was raised as a Muslim, I don't think we can blame the 'namby-pamby' CofE. Must be all of those wishy-washy liberal Mullahs and Imams eh?
     
  7. That's an interesting viewpoint F-F. My own personal philosophical tenet has long been that religious belief is a form of mental illness.

    No offence.
     
  8. FORMER_FYRDMAN

    FORMER_FYRDMAN LE Book Reviewer

    Since my religious proclivities are fully extended by the worship of rugby, beer and gorgeous women, no offence taken. I'm just curious about the assumption that any deity must be fluffy. Give me some vindictive pagan Thunder God with a cute High Priestess and a couple of eager-to-please priestess friends; that's the way to fill a church.

    RP578, just because something's omnipotent, it doesn't necessarily follow that the omnipotency be automatically exercised. I still blame the C of E because, muslim or not, they will blame themselves. Oh for Good Queen Bess.
     
  9. I think it is the automatic philosophical tenet of the feeble minded that there is big daddy in the sky that loves us. It speaks volumes that he feels happier now that he has renounced his faith, I feel similar. This is the bit:-

     
  10. FORMER_FYRDMAN

    FORMER_FYRDMAN LE Book Reviewer

    Which is another way of saying what I said, since it is the incompatability of that view with the realities of the world which have apparently caused the loss of belief. For me, the jury is still out on which group is the most futile - those who are trying to prove that there is a benign God directing the affairs of mankind or those on the other side who are committed to trying to prove a negative.
     
  11. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    No of course not, but by the same token if a deity elects not to exercise their omnipotence to stop evil, why should anyone choose to worship them? I used to have these discussions with other lads in my platoon. It usually started with them professing religious conviction because they were still walking and talking after a contact. I'd always counter by asking, if God spared them, why did He not spare those that were killed and maimed? I sometimes got the comeback of, 'it was their time'. Well if it's your time, then why bother with body armour etc. After all if it's God's will that you're to die on a particular why bother trying to protect ourselves? Also known as the "Insh'allah Doctrine" so ably demonstrated by many of our ANA comrades in arms!

    You're saying that the C of E will blame themselves for a Muslim losing faith in Islam?
     
  12. I don't know anyone who is trying to do that. Most none-believers accept that proving a negative is not possible. That is the reason for such points as the orbiting teapot, FSM and pixie arguments. They are to counter the childish argument, "you can't prove God does not exist".
     
  13. FORMER_FYRDMAN

    FORMER_FYRDMAN LE Book Reviewer

    That's where ecumenicalism and the whole 'There are many pathways to God' happy clappy, partners in faith stuff takes you. In the brave new worldism that is the C of E, being without faith is considered to be highly devout. The C of E's very Blairist - I am your leader, where shall we go? It needs to burn more/some people if it's ever going to be taken seriously again and I think that's beyond them.
     
  14. FORMER_FYRDMAN

    FORMER_FYRDMAN LE Book Reviewer

    Actually you can prove God exists by adopting Thor Heyerdahl's position that if Nature created us then Nature is God. What you're disputing is the nature of God as a sentient, omnipotent and benign being and you will either struggle to prove or disprove that or be as rich as Croesus until the end of your days. My money says you'll struggle but good luck anyway.

    1 edit
     
  15. Or renouced Islam (submission) which allows virtually no free-will or self-determination as all is in the power of Allah, hence the Insh'Allah malaise described below?