Serious Officer Question

Discussion in 'Royal Signals' started by error_unknown, Mar 17, 2003.

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  1. Various threads in this forum deal with or touch upon the relationship between Royal Signals officers and other ranks.

    My experience in the Corps was that, over a period spanning eleven years I only came across five officers that I both liked and respected. Considering the fact that I did a couple of years AAC, four and a half at 216, two in JCU and the rest at 30, this is a mighty poor return.

    I am neither bitter nor twisted about that statistic. Just bemused. It's low count isn't based on particularly demanding standards on my part (read my naafi bar postings for further clarification).

    I think my main criticism of officers, from Captains down, was that the majority of them had an inherent belief in their own intellectual superiority. In a Corps like the Signals, this is quite often not the case. I can recall countless occasions, when a YO would end up kicking off on an NCO, due to being beaten in an argument about the merits of a particular course of action. It would seem like the officers entire street cred with the ranks lay in him being better on all counts.

  2. Having read C-C's post got me thinking, and I believe this also follows some what on from the debate on the Troop Comd's course.

    I have been that person he is talking about and after finishing my tour, some time back, I think I agree with what he is saying.

    As an answer to why YO's are possibly like this early on in their careers stems possible from the initial training that they recieve.  The commissioning course using this generic training model of an infantry platoon comd to teach leadership and continues to over emphasis the importance of being bigger, better, more knowledgeable, fitter, stronger, etc. etc. than the plt that you may or may not lead,  which may well need to be the case in the teeth arms (any comments from those camps???)

    Unfortunately, when the R SIGNALS YO comes to do his specific to arm training (RSTCC) nobody both to explain that this is not the case and that a almost whole different attitude and style of leadership needs to be adopted with R SIGNALS soldiers and their Tp.  Some Officers will obviously not need to be told this and will no doubt become the good leaders of our corps, however we know that the corps does not get anywhere near the top of the officer corps from Sandhurst.

    This is where this thread now leads back into the debate about the RSTCC.  We all know that the course needs to be entirely scrapped and re developed by Blandford.  (Proof: CO's pulling students of the course to deploy on Op Tours obviously are saying their Tp Comds don't need to do this!!)  However, in that process of development and validation of the course maybe we should listen to some of the comments from our Soldiers, as after all are they not the customers who have to live with this end product!! (Thought!)

    I've said enough now!!
  3. Jammy,
    As only a select few YO's got dragged off their troopies cse to deploy recently, I would suggest that the CO involved was really responsible for the action.  If you know who i am talking about, and i am sure you do, then you will probably agree it is only one of many barking ideas that he has had.  The man makes General Meltchett look positively sane.  I do know for certain though that at least one of them was consigned to a full tour of night shifts, and given no end of sh@t for not having the necessary confidence to make decisions, or making what were deemed as poor decisions, and really just being back with the unit to fill a seat.  I am not saying completing the troopies cse would have changed any of that, but if they were only there to fill a seat, shouldn't they have been kept at blandford to complete what they have started, rather than having to go back to it now, probably harder to teach on the DS side of life as they now have 'op tour experience' and know everything?
  4. Just from an Inf perspective...(TA though not Reg)

    Yes, Sandbags teaches you leadership through the tool of the light infantry platoon as it is the basic building block of the Army.

    It is certainly an advantage to be bigger, better, stronger, fitter and more knowledgable than the blokes in your platoon but in the end this is never the case that you can't be all of these over everyone. There will always be guys who are fitter than you, bigger than you (nothing you can do about your genetics!) and when you're a newly commissioned subbie there will be at least 4 guys in your pl who are far more knowledgable than you.

    From experience the Pl Sgt always knows more than the pl comd. The sect comds always have more experience and it's always worth listening to their ideas of how to do things. At the end of the day the Pl comd makes the decisions and formulates the plans but you would be a fool not to listen to the advice that your NCOs give you.

    Trust and respect are two way streets.
  5. Surely the Platoon/troop Commander/one pip wonder, merely thinks he is in charge of his platoon/troop and that actually when giving orders, the platoon sgt and sect comds simply smile and nod and say "yes sir, what a very good idea, heres some more crayons for your colouring in book." They then proceed to carry out the tasking in a much better and effecient way and make the young officer believe it was all down to him thus keeping everyone happy. ;)
  6. Isn’t it just common sense that’s missing here?  Lets compare it to the business world for a moment, you don’t just walk into a company fresh out of university or college and expect to know more that somebody that’s been doing the job for 20 years??  Even if they do have less formal qualifications that you.  You’d be called an arrogant dick, if not worse.  You certainly wouldn’t get anybodies help when you needed it and the boss would probably have a few words to say about it as well.  However with the army young officers get brainwashed into thinking they are somehow a part of a superior master race??  Where they are supposed to be fitter, stronger, more intelligent, etc.  

    I think that superior attitude may work in a conscripted army where the soldiers don’t have much experience or training, but surely not for the most professional army in the world.  8)

    I’m off to Sandhurst in September and hopefully they won’t be able to brainwash me as easily as the 18-21 year olds.  I’ve had a bit more life experience including 5 years in industry as a project manager, which has beaten the naivety out of me (have a guess at my age ‘cause I’m not telling.)  But most young officers will probably have no idea of how to get difficult tasks done, except by barking orders and throwing their weight around.  They don't know any better, because nobody taught them better.  So I think it’s the system that is failing here, not the poor kids who get put in charge of a troop.
  7. msr

    msr LE

    Contrary to popular opinion, common sense is not all that common.....
  8. A certain college near Retford in Nottingham is a major factor in the arrogance of many Officers in the technical corps.  I hear Welbeck college may be closing soon and in the years to come things will probably improve.
  9. Didn't get in then?   :eek:
  10. I think Royal Signals Officers are some of the best i've served with.   :-*
  11. Bow_Man, I had never heard of the place until I joined Oxford UOTC.  I then met some of their products at Sandhurst in 1984.  Some of them are nice people, however they are in the minority it seems.  Having spoken to you a couple of times I agree that you are in the minority.

    Happy at Elmpt
  12. I agree with the CO on this one - the pleasant and effective ones from Retford High are in the minority.

    Before anyone says it...I didn't apply, didn't want to, didn't even know about it when I joined post-normal school, post normal sixth-form college, post normal university and post normal teenage life!


    Me ? Still writing my CV

    8 inch - would you have 'served' those best R SIGNALS officers by any chance ? ;)
  13. No.... they serve me or they would have got the 8 inch adjustable or the singing shovel  ;)
  14. 8 Incher - what makes you think you resemble Grant Mitchell? You are too small, too plump and much too ugly. Nice to hear from you again though. Another question - How was your sub-unit bash this weekend?
    Another question - Where was my f***ing invite you arrse.


    Happy in Elmpt
  15. Being an " OR "i'd like to put me spin on it

    officers are just like a box chocs

    There are some nice one's ( ex ranker's ) :D

    There are some crunchie one's ( not the stuck up one's ) 8O

    and last but not least the coffee one's ( the jumped up 21 yr old now it all not !!!! ) :x

    sianara for now