Serious and positive opinions only

#1
the number of people telling us what went wrong in Af is swamping my bed, I would be interested to hear what serious minds would have done instead, apart from not going near the place, that's not an option on this post.
 
D

Djelli Beybii

Guest
#3
What went wrong.
All the AQ / Talitubby head shed were in Pakistan
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
#4
Go in in 2001 and trash the place, back the living shite out of the Northern Alliance with guns and gold, leave a small residual SF presence and home in time for tea and medals. Optionally, commission Bagram or Kandahar as a fast jet/helarm site and provide air support to the NA (which by then would be the Afghan government) and leave 'em to it. No damn nonsense about nation-building.

You might even consider trawling Afghan for the remnants of the old Afghan Army, left behind by the Russians, which was a much more effective force than folk realise and arming them as well.
 
#5
1. Started with a plan that defined the desired end state.

2. Stuck to the plan.

It might sound suspiciously like Selection and Maintenance of the Aim but them I'm a bluff old traditionalist.
 
#6
We sent the Paras into Helmand and CENTCOM got involved as well . We also failed to set up a permanent HQ.

Other than that, every measure of humanity has improved in Afghanistan in our time their.

Up.
Education
Access to healthcare
Economy
Power generation

Down
Infant mortality.
 
#7
With the benefit of hindsight: gone in heavy, sealed the exits, butchered the Taliban and AQ leadership. Bundled it up in 18 months having sat down with Pindi and agreed a handover of "peacekeeping responsibilities", for it'll be theirs soon anyway.

Better yet if Bill Clinton encouraged the Iranians to invade when they wanted to, the buggers would probably still be stuck there.
 
#8
We sent the Paras into Helmand and CENTCOM got involved as well . We also failed to set up a permanent HQ.

Other than that, every measure of humanity has improved in Afghanistan in our time their.

Up.
Education
Access to healthcare
Economy
Power generation

Down
Infant mortality.
As a pessimist I believe all of the above will be reversed in quick time once we leave and the Taliban are back in charge...sigh
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
#9
With the benefit of hindsight: gone in heavy, sealed the exits, butchered the Taliban and AQ leadership. Bundled it up in 18 months having sat down with Pindi and agreed a handover of "peacekeeping responsibilities", for it'll be theirs soon anyway.

Better yet if Bill Clinton encouraged the Iranians to invade when they wanted to, the buggers would probably still be stuck there.
Or, if we were feeling mischievous, invited the Indians to despatch a Corps to keep the peace....
 
#10
As a pessimist I believe all of the above will be reversed in quick time once we leave and the Taliban are back in charge...sigh
I truly believe that as long as we don't forget about the place and keep the support going, we'll see a resurgence of the Taliban in some areas but not the dominant militant truce they were. In my experience afghans don't want a return of Taliban and the TB have also mellowed a bit.
 
#13
Turn the clocks back to the 1960's when it was a very liberal and carefree place to live without the religious of government restrictions it enjoys today!

Back then they had one of the biggest female universities in the world, chunning out nurses, doctors and scientists galour.
 
#14
Turn the clocks back to the 1960's when it was a very liberal and carefree place to live without the religious of government restrictions it enjoys today!

Back then they had one of the biggest female universities in the world, chunning out nurses, doctors and scientists galour.
Incorrect. The cities were, the rural areas weren't. And as 95% of the population are/have been rural, the rural populations lives haven't been changed much.

We've fallen into the trap of thinking the westernised city dwellers who left AFG speak for all of Afghanistan.

It's a bit like talking to a Bohemian Parisian about life in France and they'll give the impression that all French people are Bohemian Parisians.
 
#15
My 10c.

We knew how to do this back in the Transvaal on 1900 and the Malaysian jungles of the 1960s.

Concentrate the people into controlled areas and provide them with a better life and positive propaganda in those controlled areas.

Achieve the concentration by denial of the key requirements for life outside those areas, food and water. Blocked roads, poisoned wells, spoiled crops, slaughtered livestock. The British stripped the Transvaal bare, and starved the Boers into submission.

We wouldn't be allowed to do it today. But it would have worked.
 
#16
Incorrect. The cities were, the rural areas weren't. And as 95% of the population are/have been rural, the rural populations lives haven't been changed much.

We've fallen into the trap of thinking the westernised city dwellers who left AFG speak for all of Afghanistan.

It's a bit like talking to a Bohemian Parisian about life in France and they'll give the impression that all French people are Bohemian Parisians.
AA, fair enough. I have only seen/read articles that refer to the cities, and that Afghanistan was part of the tourist trail and was starting to really flourish. Thank you for pointing out the rural aspects.
 
#17
That crusty old chinese bloke Tsun zu put many things in military nutshells, like:

If you must fight a battle after a journey of a thousand miles, make sure your enemy makes that journey.

Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.

We were baited into the hindu kush and we made the journey.
 
#18
AA, fair enough. I have only seen/read articles that refer to the cities, and that Afghanistan was part of the tourist trail and was starting to really flourish. Thank you for pointing out the rural aspects.
Wasn't having a go. As numerous terps told me and locals I spoke to. TB rule was harsh but no different to what the rural areas were used to.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
In terms of the future, I hope a lot of thought is going into future force structures and capabilities for Afghan-style operations.

In terms of what would have made a real difference, the obvious one is the denial of safe areas to the insurgents; removing their ability to set the tempo of the conflict, manage attrition rates and regenerate capability.

Unless we were prepared to go into Pakistan as far and for as long as was required, we should have simply turned Afghanistan upside down via the Northern Alliance and left with the promise to return and repeat the process as often as was required for them to behave.
 
#20
In terms of the future, I hope a lot of thought is going into future force structures and capabilities for Afghan-style operations.

In terms of what would have made a real difference, the obvious one is the denial of safe areas to the insurgents; removing their ability to set the tempo of the conflict, manage attrition rates and regenerate capability.

Unless we were prepared to go into Pakistan as far and for as long as was required, we should have simply turned Afghanistan upside down via the Northern Alliance and left with the promise to return and repeat the process as often as was required for them to behave.
We got involved in a civil war and backed the loosing side.

The NA would've needed continual support. They have no support in the Pashtun tribal areas of the south and the east.
 

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