Army Rumour Service

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Serious and Organised Crime in the UK. Anyone read the NAO report?

May I respectfully suggest that individual agencies potentially involved in the panoply of those required to successfully prosecute a required specific action, should remain the realm of tv without straying into specifics. Sanitised public releases of successful outcomes are released occasionally, however they do not delve into specifics or individual agencies except if those releasing them want an individual agency to take the credit. Lets just leave it as a team effort.

My mentioning of Spooks was just that it was coincidental to the conversation. I'm sure we can all differentiate between a TV drama and a real-life, fly-on-the-wall documentary.

It is important that the overall objective is to detect organised crime and bring offenders to justice and not willy-wave about who played the most important part in doing that. It is a shared endeavour and relies upon the necessary cooperation between different agencies and departments, nationally and internationally, each of whom have their own specialisms. After all, crims aren't siloed or geographically restricted when it comes to committing crime so their activities will cross between the different law enforcement and intelligence agencies, home and abroad.

I think it would also be fair to say that there will be many instances where operations have been successful but there is very limited publicly released information due to on-going and/or parallel investigations that might risk exposing UC officers or CIs or particular methods of intelligence or evidence gathering techniques that might otherwise jeopardise current or future investigations.
 

Yokel

LE
Do criminal gangs use things like "drones' - remotely controlled aircraft for smuggling and moving illicit goods? What can be done to stop them?

Are the criminals still using light aircraft to bring drugs into the country and using small ports and small boats?
 
Do criminal gangs use things like "drones' - remotely controlled aircraft for smuggling and moving illicit goods? What can be done to stop them?

Are the criminals still using light aircraft to bring drugs into the country and using small ports and small boats?

Obviously yes to both, with ever more impunity.
You would probably need to ask one of the serving HMPS on here about drones and what is being done to counter them.

Just look back to September last year and Heathrow/Gatwick with regard to drones.

Boats and small ports?
England alone has 7,700 miles of coastline.
Still is and has been going on since the mid '90s, but this brought some things to unwelcome attention.

 

aardvark64

War Hero
This is your reply to this



I do not care what the NAO, NCA or Home Office say. If someone cannot see the damage that is being caused to the Legal system in the UK ( Including Policing, Investigating, Arresting and Prosecuting ) by the Yuman Rites Brigade, including parasitic Lawyers, then they are at best blind and at worse, stupid beyond belief.
Or complicit.
 

Poppy

LE
Obviously yes to both, with ever more impunity.
You would probably need to ask one of the serving HMPS on here about drones and what is being done to counter them.

Just look back to September last year and Heathrow/Gatwick with regard to drones.

Boats and small ports?
England alone has 7,700 miles of coastline.
Still is and has been going on since the mid '90s, but this brought some things to unwelcome attention.


surely it's been going on since before the mid-90s?
 
surely it's been going on since before the mid-90s?

Some of it yes, drones obviously not.
Certainly in the '80s light aircraft in the early hours with no lights on were a common occurrence, but back then we had a fully manned and functioning professional Coastguard and Customs Service.
An awful lot of seriously minded career criminals back then had their own PPL and access to a light aircraft and isolated farmers fields.

Small ports and inlets with pleasure boats was the main problem then, not RIBs.
But back then we had actual enforcement on the coastline and borders.
Not just talk of it.
 
My apologies for posting this article from the Daily Mail (other ones are behind paywalls), but it highlights a recent case where the NCA is gone for the pocket, in absence of sufficient evidence of criminal activity, the subject has not been able to explain his unearned wealth. And his fingers seem to be everywhere:

 

4(T)

LE
My apologies for posting this article from the Daily Mail (other ones are behind paywalls), but it highlights a recent case where the NCA is gone for the pocket, in absence of sufficient evidence of criminal activity, the subject has not been able to explain his unearned wealth. And his fingers seem to be everywhere:



Imagine how many there must be who are clever enough not to publicly flaunt their criminal proceeds?

In my short career as a private investigator, I had a string of cases where the subject was known to have handled or possessed many £m.

E.g. one was a Pakistani sweet shop worker who lived in a WW2 prefab and had a rusty little van, another was a Brit who had a ten year old Volvo and lived in a small farm cottage. There were many others like this.

People like this probably never come to the attention of the authorities (none of these evidently had, when we had done our commercial bit and had found evidence that pointed to crim activity).

The overwhelming majority of my cases also occurred within defined religious and/or racial "communities". It was quite clear that these groups were simply doing their own thing without any regard for- or interference from- our society and its authorities.

Given the vast influx of ethnic migrants even since "my time" i do wonder how the Police are doing with penetrating foreign language clan-based crimes families? Albanians, Turks, Vietnamese, Chinese, Poles, Romainians, Chechen, Russian, Serb, etc and so on?
 
Given the vast influx of ethnic migrants even since "my time" i do wonder how the Police are doing with penetrating foreign language clan-based crimes families? Albanians, Turks, Vietnamese, Chinese, Poles, Romainians, Chechen, Russian, Serb, etc and so on?


The Police aren't and neither are the NCA.



It isn't going to get any better in the UK any time soon with regard to serious and organised criminality.
One bloke in West Yorkshire giving up some money is not going to really put the shits up some of the better and more organised crime families in the UK.

A bit of perspective.
The whole of the UK is said to host some 7,500 different organised criminal groups that cost the country £100 million a day in crime and lost revenues.
 
My point exactly, there are very very few detectives left nationally in the true sense of the word.

You could always get someone of proven leadership and experience in to remedy the situation?
1602099540502.jpeg


Oh.

Never mind.

On AF, I think I should be extremely careful with what I say. However, I utterly endorse @Cold_Collation comments.

I've often joked with serving and fomer colleagues that if I went into on-line crime and pitched myself above the mongs and below the people who would attract national assets/US attention (or God Help Me, the Dutch cyber police who are bloody good), I could earn a good living doing next to nothing.

But obviously, I wouldn't.

Seriously, the death of the CID and the collpase of capabilty and capacity are going to bite the UK on the backside.
 
Simple way to fix it though. Ask Rishi Sunak to tax it. Even prostitutes pay taxes. Why not drug dealers etc?
 
A more recent view of the NCA from the inside:-


These are people that should be out there enjoying their job, being not office based and even tied up with applications or paperwork, having fun and fcuking up criminals lives.
They have far more powers and access to equipment (and even allowed to be using it) than any generation involved in law-enforcement before them.
But from this link they obviously aren't having fun, and aren't even fcuking up criminals lives at all.

Probably gone back to DVLC or Central Ticket Office where they applied from.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic for the British tax-paying public.
 
A law enforcement agency managed by civil service graduates and admin gurus who have little knowledge of LE and think they're in James Bond. Stick to policing if you want a career in LE.

Sadly, utterly matches my experience.

I came close to punching out an NCA dude at a social function, who was an astounding arrogant an with zero experience to back it up. I dread to think what some proper crims would have felt like. He lasted I think 18 months before he went off to the Cabinet Office, even he realised I think that OCG stuff was out of his depth. Actually, shoplifting would have been out of his depth.

This week, I had two calls with friends who are currently NCA. One was picking up my brains on a topic as 'our X,Y,Z unit is a bit crap' and the second was asking if I knew of any jobs.

Both are extremly good, experienced competent investigators (both from former police backgrounds). They called for a sanity break, so God knows why they called me.

I know around 10 former/serving SOCA/NCA types - none had a good word to say, other than it's a job.

I take no pleasure in this, I don't want this country being a safe haven for organised crime.

edited to add

Hysterical!!

When 95 percent of your workforce think something is a bad idea, it is not because they are resistant to change. It's because it is a bad idea. Sometimes those lower in the pecking order, who actually do the job day-to-day, know best. Don't just pretend to listed to them. Actually listen to them.
 
My apologies for posting this article from the Daily Mail (other ones are behind paywalls), but it highlights a recent case where the NCA is gone for the pocket, in absence of sufficient evidence of criminal activity, the subject has not been able to explain his unearned wealth. And his fingers seem to be everywhere:

I heard that on R4 this morning.

To save people from the pain of reading the Daily Mail here is the link to the NCA's own report on their web page. Businessman with links to serious criminals loses property empire after settling £10m Unexplained Wealth Order case

Even though the NCA appeared to have had to settle for a conviction in the civil courts instead of getting a criminal conviction I'm sure this bloke's known criminal associates will want to keep their distance from him now that he has been pinged. Plus he's lost a lot of dosh which will piss on his cornflakes. If he's got any sense he'll look at this, realise he's on the radar, and if he wants to avoid any potential gaol time stay well away from any criminal activity. That said, it's relying on him having some sense but once people like that get a taste of the lifestyle they tend to be reluctant to give it up.
 
Last edited:
The Police aren't and neither are the NCA.



It isn't going to get any better in the UK any time soon with regard to serious and organised criminality.
One bloke in West Yorkshire giving up some money is not going to really put the shits up some of the better and more organised crime families in the UK.

A bit of perspective.
The whole of the UK is said to host some 7,500 different organised criminal groups that cost the country £100 million a day in crime and lost revenues.

My understanding is that the Albanian mafia and OCGs are pretty much right at the top when it comes to their violence and ruthlessness.
 
I've often joked with serving and fomer colleagues that if I went into on-line crime and pitched myself above the mongs and below the people who would attract national assets/US attention (or God Help Me, the Dutch cyber police who are bloody good), I could earn a good living doing next to nothing.
From what I've heard the Dutch police and law enforcement agencies are some of the best in Europe.
 
Nobody wants our country to be a safe haven for international or organised crime, but unfortunately the facts speak otherwise.
The NCA takes out 10% of one days estimated profit from criminality, with one bloke from West Yorkshire.
And shouts it from the rooftops.
Wow.
So, the rest of the year then?
Most (full-time) professional criminals are far more professional than those civil servants from TFL, DVLC and various other former backgrounds currently trying to catch them.
The thinking and tax paying public is far from impressed, especially those with (albeit now very long) memories of how law-enforcement used to be in respect of serious, international and organised crime groupings.

And way back then without a fraction of todays resources and equipment, but with a lot of motivation.
Crack on with recruiting on the Civil Service jobs website though.

Good luck!



(When 95 percent of your workforce think something is a bad idea, it is not because they are resistant to change. It's because it is a bad idea. Sometimes those lower in the pecking order, who actually do the job day-to-day, know best. Don't just pretend to listed to them. Actually listen to them.)
 
Nobody wants our country to be a safe haven for international or organised crime, but unfortunately the facts speak otherwise.
The NCA takes out 10% of one days estimated profit from criminality, with one bloke from West Yorkshire.
And shouts it from the rooftops.
Wow.
So, the rest of the year then?
Most (full-time) professional criminals are far more professional than those civil servants from TFL, DVLC and various other former backgrounds currently trying to catch them.
The thinking and tax paying public is far from impressed, especially those with (albeit now very long) memories of how law-enforcement used to be in respect of serious, international and organised crime groupings.

And way back then without a fraction of todays resources and equipment, but with a lot of motivation.
Crack on with recruiting on the Civil Service jobs website though.

Good luck!



(When 95 percent of your workforce think something is a bad idea, it is not because they are resistant to change. It's because it is a bad idea. Sometimes those lower in the pecking order, who actually do the job day-to-day, know best. Don't just pretend to listed to them. Actually rganised crime is mostly invisible to the general public
Organised crime is mostly invisible to the general public. People tend to be concerned with what's visible to them so that's low level criminality such as anti-social behaviour, nuisance motorcyclists & scooter riders, fly tipping, petty crime etc. Unfortunately OCGs are always going to be one step ahead of the law, especially when there is so much money to be made, and modern technology makes that so much easier for them and is well worth them investing in.

The NCA is a really small organisation and doesn't attract much funding. As a civil service department the pay isn't that good compared to what a copper earns for the equivalent grade. Apart from a few select officers they don't wear a uniform and most of them don't have powers or arrest. Although the NCA is a law enforcement organisation they are not police officers, I think HMRC are similar in that regard. There's probably more coppers in your average county police force than there are in the whole of the NCA which has a national responsibility and also works with international law enforcement agencies.

If the government really wants to tackle organised crime and the money it sucks out of the pockets of ordinary, honest, hard-working people it needs to invest in the NCA but where the public is concerned they would rather have the money spent on skoolz 'n' 'ospitals.

You criticise the NCA for shouting from the rooftops re today's UWO success but if the public are mainly unaware of what they do then perhaps they need to shout louder.

I think the two main directorates of the NCA are Investigations and Intelligence. Maybe those two directorates should be separated into two different agencies, with the ROCUs - being police officers - combining to take national responsibility for the law enforcement functions and leaving the NCA with a purely intelligence gathering role aimed at OCGs, perhaps in a similar way to the Security Service regarding counter-terrorism.
 
And way back then without a fraction of todays resources and equipment, but with a lot of motivation.
Crack on with recruiting on the Civil Service jobs website though.

Good luck!

True story, over drinks at a leaving do I was approached for a job at NCA.

Mate of mine had set up his boss to chat to me and ask me to apply. The £5k pay cut from a DC pay wasn't helpful. However fun it would have been and I like to make a difference and do the right thing, I'm wasn't taking a pay cut to move to London.

I did apply for two NCA posts. Never heard back from one. The second, they "lost the email" from pnn secure email to pnn secure email. For a chuckle, I said my Superintendent was conducting a security review on the infrastructure if that was the case, and got panicked calls from the HR at the other end.

But I'm sure direct entry with no experience sheep dipped through a DC course can get the job done.

@Jimmy_Green as to public image, a little less waving guns and a little more notebook and pen would do the NCA a good deal of help.

I emailed a serving mate on their launch and was chuckling at their launch video. It was a hard-stop being conducted and someone taken into custody, very "FBI - Open Up!" I asked how the NCA Am Dram Society was with re-enacting the Mark Duggan shooting and just got back a long sigh (my mate was a triple-warranted former police officer with actual experience). He resigned and left for the private sector after a year or so, advising me never to even think about it.

Anyway, must go. My dark net market credit carding business won't run itself.
 

Latest Threads

Top