Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by AndyPipkin, May 28, 2006.
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How does the old Cold War joke go...?
Optimists are teaching their children Russian; the pessimists Chinese...
Newspaper headline 20 years from now:
'ALL QUIET ON CHINESE-GERMAN BORDER'
...and 40 years from now:
Diplomatic talks between EU and China reach stalemate, France capitulates!.............just in case!..............again!
Where the drama, not like Russia puts a lot of effort in to looking after its eastern most regions, and more business and more competition only benefits everyone, so the locals standard of living gets better... well thats how i see it
The Chinese have 'Taken' so much of the Orient by the slow peaceful means of exporting people over the centuries.
Where I live is totally dominated by Chinese and all the major business are owned by Thai Chinese families.
The Chinese will risk all on a single gamble, often the villages money from the Home country, tens of thousand loose and stay as coolies but the occasional man makes the big time.
They have no real sense of democracy, Money talks and bullpoo walks. Family loyalty is strong as is devotion to the ancestors.
It is an often discussed subject as to if the Loyalty is to the adopted country or to the old country.
Chinese hard working with a long term view and are sometime said will buy any land on offer, the reason that Foringers are not allowed to own land where I live.
Except for the fact that there's a metric ass-tonne of gas, oil, coal and assorted precious metals stuck under the place, somewhere around the 80% mark of Russia's total reserves I remember reading somewhere. And at the moment energy resources are the only thing keeping Russia's economy ticking over how they like it i.e. solidly in the black and able to blackmail and threaten their neighbours.
Granted it's not Siberian energy they're currently exporting but they've got to be thinking of the future - and salivating at the expected profits like Gordon Brown when he's just come up with a new tax. I've also heard said that Russian's tend to have a bit of a latent racist tendency towards Asians courtesy of the Muscovy period when the Golden Horde invaded the region and forced them to become a tributory subject state of theirs, retarding their development for several hundred years whilst Western Europe enjoyed the Renaissance.
Now that doesn't mean they're about to go all Tom Clancy though. They finally got around to settling the last of the long-running border dispute that's been dragging on for the past 40 years last year so things should be settled there. What China is most anxious about now though is making sure that all those lovely raw materials got sold to them and not their competitors, witness the recent tussles between them and Japan over the proposed route of the new oil and gas pipelines from the Siberian interior to the Pacific.
I don't speak Mandarin and unlikely it would be practical. Recently I heard one story.
A Chinese businessman founded a factory (legally). All wokers are Chinese, mainly illegal migrants. Russia hasn't invested even one penny and without any efforts receives taxes and has additional production for its GDP.
The factory could be closed at few minutes and all workers (including the owner) could be deported at one day. And it will be done in the case a riot. The Chinese in the Russian Far East are absolutely rightless and so are calm and don't think about even peacefull demostrations.
Many hope that later or sooner China would demand territories in Russian Far East. Rather Mwxico would demand territories in USA (Los-Angeles, for example). There are 11 mln. of illigal migrants in USA, maily from Mexico and they are not calm. Moreover, their deportation would cause a severe blow for American economy. By comtrast the Chines (in Russia) know that they can be easily substituted by Vietnamese (for example).
I note (in previous posts) that the Russians are notorious xenophobes toward 'non-whites'. Black-skinned French citizen was beated in Moscow during an attempt of "Gay parade" in Moscow (27 May). He was not a prticipant though. Simply a mob decided to beat him 'by the way'.
Moscow mayor prohibited the parade to avoid riots. But the gay activists 27 May went with flowers to ... the Grave of Unknown Soldier (it is few meters from the wall of the Kremlin). Police was on allert and blocked their way. Later anti-gay mobs attacked gays and police dataned many from both sides (including members of Europarlament and Bundestag).
Sergey, I think you'll find that China is very much nearer to Russia than Vietnam is. And also that the Chinese government won't take too kindly to its citizens being mistreated (except by themselves).
It is well known that USA has the biggest number of illegal migrants - 11 mlns. There are about 10 mlns. of them in Russia: from Tadjikistan, Azerbajan, Afghanista, from China and Vietnam. There are tens thousands (if not more) Vietnamese only in Moscow. There are many Vietnamese, agricultural workers in Moscow region. They work all the day for $200 per month (huge money in their motherland).
As for Chinese government then illegal migrants are illegal migrants. There is no ground for protestsa and I haven't heard about even one protest.
Deleted 'cos I'm pished
Well Sergey, the chances of Mexico taking over the USA are pretty slim, the chances of China taking over eastern Russia...not so slim. You try forcibly evicting these Chinese 'illegal immigrants' and see how long it takes 'You-Know-Hu'* to start protesting.
How you gonna stop 'em, Sergey? There's going to be 100m of you and 1.5bn of them in 20 years time.
Also, why do you have to turn EVERY SINGLE DISCUSSION into something about the USA??? There's enough sufferers of post-imperial penis envy on here already without you taking it to entirely new levels. THE USSR IS GONE! GET OVER IT!
You also might have noticed that the 'illegal immigrants' protesting in the US last month were mostly waving Stars & Stripes - i.e. they WANT to be Americans. Do the Chinese 'illegal immigrants' in Russia want to be Russian? I doubt it. But hey, look on the bright side, pork chow mein is a damned sight nicer than beetroot soup .
*little Harry Potter reference for you there.
There are many Vietnamese, agricultural workers in Moscow region. They work all the day for $200 per month (huge money in their motherland).
i think you are out of touch with vietnam.The vietnamese middle management earn a lot more now than the russian expats who live here do.
By deportations Andy. Those that try to hide would end in lovely labour camps in Siberia. The Chinese understand pretty well what does it mean.
Because there is the same problem in USA (from my point of view American problem is more serious). Well, let's look at the UK, at London. Soon the English will be a minority in London. Is it a problem?
Andy, why are you so loud? Calm down. I got over it. Moreover, there are some benefits. Ethnically Russians are now 80% in Russia (in USSR it was 50%).
And I doubt. So there are no problems with their deportation (unlike deportation of the Mexicans).
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