Sergeant Major of the Army

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by Glad_its_all_over, Jan 31, 2006.

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  1. Interesting point just came up in another thread - raised by GOATMAN:

    The US Armed Forces have a stratospherically senior OR at the right hand of each of the relevant service Chiefs of Staff, with a specific mandate to represent enlisted views and interests, both to the chain of command and to - in the US case - Congress and the Senate.

    They also have Command Sergeants Major at formation level, who perform a similar function for the 4*, 3* and 2* officers in command of those formations.

    Now, the senior WO in the British Army is the RSM at Sandhurst, right (yes, yes, I know about Conductors RLC, but no-one's going to ask them about anything but their thing, are they?) - and no-one, to the best of my knowledge, calls him from Whitehall for a soundbite on pay and conditions.

    So - is this a model our Lords and Masters should be thinking about? Are there pros? Are there cons? Should the job be non-commissionable by definition?

    Edited to give credit where credit's due.
     
  2. The US has a Sgt Major College, it seems to be a very good institution, I had the pleasure of socialising with one of the senior instructors there, they seem to really appreciate operational experience in their training staff as opposed to depot wallahs. I think it is a model that should be copied by ourselves.
     
  3. There is, at a much lower level, something similar in 3 (UK) Div where there is an appointment in the Div HQ of the Div Sgt Maj. This was an appointment eased through by Cedric Delves when he was the GOC. The reason was to establish a warant who could move through the Div, tresting the water, acting as a conduit for the troops' to register their concerns and keeping the GOC "aware". Needless to say, the DSM was also an advisor to the GOC. Its a useful precedent and I'm sure that there will be an ARRSEr currently in 3** who can amplify what I've said. So, do we see the ArmySgt Maj as being a Fd Army appointment, sitting with Comd Fd Army in LAND? Thoughts?
     
  4. As a lot of officers are promoted from the ranks and are former RSM´s themselves, so what´s the point?

    He´ll be standing around like a Spare Pr*ck at a Wedding,opening doors and making the tea and wondering what the F*ck he´s there for anyway!

    Stiff-Digit,72 posts in 4 days,you´ve got less real work to do than...............................HerrenBloke! :twisted: :lol:
     
  5. I recently left 3** and the DSM was still there. GOC did not use him much because he was a) pre-CSM and b) the GOC at the time had the touch with the boys - trhey told him what they thought.

    The closest equivalent we have is probably Sergeant Major London District who briefs the PM and Royalty on their public duty roles. As suc he 'has their ear' as reqd.
     
  6. Mr_Fingerz

    Mr_Fingerz LE Book Reviewer

  7. Command Sergeant Major of the Army......soldier or politician? What are the chances of the senior enlisted man in any Army hearing the real woes of a serving soldier? VIP visits are normally scripted to the finest detail.

    http://www.army.mil/leaders/leaders/sma/articles.html

    Here is a link to what the SMA does. You decide if the British Army needs one?
     
  8. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    Oi GIAO !....where's my attribution !


    On the UK Naval side 2SL would probably point to the WO who sits on his Presentation Team and conducts the debrief to him personally at conclusion of each (Quarterly) tour of RN/RM establishments.

    I know the boss of the APT( a half Colonel) does the same - to ACGS in person.

    But that is NOT the same as the US system....if I understand how their system works ( and I stand by for USMC Sergeant Major to correct me on this - T6 ? Yank Lurker ? - if you know him, wheel him aboard ! ) the Master Chief sits in at ALL high level discussions.....the equivalent here would be the senior British NonCom sitting in at either Executive Council of the Army Board or the Defence Council, alongside his boss and free to speak..........not sure Transatlantic egalitarianism has reached those levels......

    Le Chevre
     
  9. Had this idea ben mooted when it mattered to me, I'd be a bit sus.
    It needs a lot of moral character to occupy such a position and be completely dispassionate. Also needs to be aware that there is always the possibility that his opinion will be sought for wrong reason "Well the (whatever they call him) thinks it is a good idea and he is there to know this sort of thing..." Basically. I worry about anyone speaking on my behalf when he has not consulted me and I am not there to hear what he thinks he heard me say. I did once suggest that the senior WOI of the sybills should be whereever it was that they reviewed all the annual CRs of the investigators. This to adjust for the "if he's one of my lads he must be good" syndrome from some reporting officers and the "Good - of course he's good but that's what we pay him for" of others.
     
  10. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    Thanks for the link Mr Fingerz....don't have the temerity to intrude in the Seniors forum too often....

    The notorious milord Flashheart ( now presumably packing his best little black number for Herrick) made a fair point:
    Not sure Master Gunnery Sgt Major Estrada ever considered trading in his stripes for bars....I can almost guarantee somebody asked him to.

    Some good points made about whether any badgeman is genuinely 'in touch' with the 23 year olds standing in front of him....

    Oldest (sober) Corporal in the British Army maybe ?
     
  11. As a serving Marine Reservist about 13 years ago, the Chief Master Sgt. of the Air Force was aboard our USAF base, and gave a damn enough to come see us Marines at the Naval Air Facility which was a tenant activity. It was a very small gathering, just we troops (I was a Lance Cpl, there were a few PFC's along with some Jr and Sr NCO's) and it was a totally informal meeting. He brought no staff, and no notes. He talked, and we talked. It was a good meeting--and at the least we felt someone was standing up for our interests as enlisted Reservists (though he of course was a Regular). It also made us feel that someone was bloody-well listening to our concerns, and would tell the Powers That Be what we had to say. It certainly spoke a LOT of the caliber of man he was--did he have any obligation as CMSGT of the AF to talk to a bunch of Reservist jarheads? Not. But he walked into our unit, and asked if he could set up an ad hoc meeting of enlisted men to talk to about matters which concerned them. Just because he gave a damn. He certainly wasn't running for office....

    [Edit] And no, I hate to disappoint, but I'm now merely a civilian "has-been" with a spreading gut due to a sedentary civilian occupation and too much comfy living. I certainly do not have any aquaintance with the Sgt Major of the US Marine Corps!

     
  12. Each Corps has an RSM and now the Infantry have one too (Senior RSM at ITC Catterrick). If we had a SGTMAJ ARMY what would he do? The AcSM has a conference each year at RMAS for all RSMS for example which is attended by CGS and AG etc...
     
  13. Off topic, sorry. I went to the page showing the biography of Master Gunnery Sgt Major Estrada of the USMC, and was highly impressed; not least with his six rows of medals, which he has earned despite having (and, Sir, please forgive me if I've misinterpreted the bio) little, if any operational experience. I then went on to look at the outstanding record of Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chairman (SEAC) William Joseph Gainey, U.S. Army, who's obviously a first-class chap.

    His decorations include: "the Legion of Merit, 1 Oak Leaf Cluster; Bronze Star with "V" for valor; Meritorious Service Medal, 7 Oak Leaf Clusters; Army Commendation Medal, 7 Oak Leaf Clusters; Army Achievement Medal, 1 Oak Leaf Cluster; Good Conduct Medal, National Defense Service Medal; Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal; Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal; Global War on Terrorism Service Medal; Armed Forces Service Medal; NCO Professional Development Ribbon; Army Service Ribbon; Overseas Service Ribbon; NATO Medal; Army Superior Unit Award; Master Parachutist Badge; Pathfinder's Badge; Combat Action Badge; the Drill Sergeant Badge; the Order of Saint George (Bronze Medallion), and the Ancient Order of Saint Barbara"

    Jeez, as they say. I spent more'n a few years doing the dirty and have a little oak leaf (wilting) on a GSM (the LSGC was haughtily disallowed for the results of an evening's joyous violence at HM's in Bielefeld when I was a local-acting-LCpl).

    Wish I'd joined the Boy Scouts. I cud 'ave Bin a Contender.
     
  14. two medals for the global war on terrorism?? the expeditionary one for those who actually left the USA for it, presumably? and the NCO professional development ribbon? is that like our CLM certificate? and a f*cking ARMY SUPERIOR UNIT AWARD?!?!??