SERBIA TO BE RUSSIAN “TROJAN HORSE” WITHIN EU/NATO

#1
ONE

Although satisfactory progress is being made, I have never understood why Serbia would want to join the EU . . .

SETimes.com reports . . . . . 20/10/2009 said:
2009 EC report: positive outlook for Serbia

Serbia "has done a good and serious job in co-operating with The Hague tribunal and in meeting its obligations regarding the war crimes", according EU Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn.
By Igor Jovanovic for Southeast European Times in Belgrade - 20/10/09

The European Commission (EC) last week gave a thumbs-up to Serbia's implementation of European standards on the road to EU membership and called on the Union to implement its Interim Trade Agreement with Serbia.

Serbia signed the accord and the Stabilisation and Association Agreement with the EU in April 2008. Both agreements were suspended pending Serbia's full co-operation with The Hague tribunal. Currently, the only EU member blocking the Interim Trade Agreement is the Netherlands, which demands that fugitive Ratko Mladic be apprehended and extradited.

EU Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn said Serbia "has done a good and serious job in co-operating with The Hague tribunal and in meeting its obligations regarding the war crimes".

He added that Serbia "has demonstrated a will to come closer to the EU by implementing provisions of the interim agreement with the EU and by carrying out essential reforms".

Serbian Prime Minister Mirko Cvetkovic called the EC report "good news" that would significantly shorten the EU candidate status for Serbia. According to Cvetkovic, the 2009 EC report is the most favourable one thus far.

Branko Ruzic of the Socialist Party of Serbia described the report as "a positive message and an encouragement for Serbia in the further process of the integration process, affirming the Serbian government's commitment on the path to the EU".

Serbia, however, still has some work to do. The country must take a more constructive stance on Kosovo, pass the Vojvodina Statute, combat corruption and crime, continue with judiciary reforms, enhance the rights of minorities, and help bring those that attack journalists, human rights activists and members of the gay and lesbian population to justice.

Tomislav Nikolic, leader of the Serbian Progressive Party, also noted that European officials reprimanded Serbia's excessive budget spending, adding that if the trend continues, "Serbia will be heavily indebted with no advantage of becoming an EU member."

Tanja Miscevic, head of the Serbian EU Integration Office from 2005 to 2008, also expressed restraint in assessing the report.

"The EC report should be read as a guide for further actions, that is, indicating what else must be done to ensure that we successfully finish what we started."

This content was commissioned for SETimes.com

2009 EC report: positive outlook for Serbia (SETimes.com)
 

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#2
TWO

I have previously advocated that for cultural, historical, political, ethnic reasons (and because of a shared bloody mindedness and cussedness), a more appropriate future for Serbia (with possibly Montenegro and Republika Srpska), would be within a formal political, economic and defence alliance with Russia (and other predominantly Slavic countries).

The "Commonwealth of Independent States" (CIS) comes to mind, in spite of its faults and the unnecessary and counter productive over-bearing behaviour of Russia within the CIS.

Those "cultural, historical, political, ethnic reasons", were confirmed by the Presidents of Russia and Serbia.

Blic Online reports . . . . 21.10.2009 said:
Medvedev: Important role to Serbia in new security system

Russian President Dmitri Medvedev had yesterday one hour of face-to-face talk with Serbian President Boris Tadic. As ‘Blic’ learns the key topics were Russian credit of one billion Dollars to Serbia, gas arrangement and new system of European security in which Serbia, as Medvedev said, has important role.

As we further learn, Russia set no political conditions to Serbia regarding the credit. There are only financial conditions to be agreed in the days to come. According to initial plan, 200 millions shall be direct support to Serbian budget while allocation of the remaining 800 million Dollars for infrastructural projects shall be agreed by expert teams of the two countries.

The second topic that the two presidents talked about was the system of new European security and Serbia's support to Medvedev's initiative over new security configuration in Europe. Tadic said that "Serbia is open for the initiative".

In the Federation Palace Medvedev only told the journalists that "the role of Serbia in that system is important" and that "he does not expect that all countries of Europe shall join the NATO". However, he said more about "the new European security" while addressing deputies in Serbia Parliament . . . .

Medvedev also pointed out that Russia and Serbia were now on good course and that the projects on the way connected them additionally.

"Modernization of NIS, construction of Southern Stream and underground storage facility at Banatski Dvor are huge projects that energy security of Europe depends on. We are actively working on it", Russian President said. He also said that "Russia supports Serbia's decision over European integration".

Serbian President Boris Tadic said that bilateral relations between Serbia and Russia "have been progressing for years" and that "there is understanding in all spheres in which the two countries are active today". According to his words meeting with Russian President Dmitri Medvedev "has historic importance".

Blic Online | Medvedev: Important role to Serbia in new security system
 

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#3
THREE

It is suggested, that yesterday's pronouncements would indicate that the EU and NATO should now both look very carefully at the(ir) invitations that have been extended to Serbia to join their respective organisations.

The publicly stated intent of both the President of the Russian Federation Dmitri Medvedev, and of the Serbian President Boris Tadic, is that Serbia would exert an influence within both the EU, and within NATO, in favour of the "third party" Russia - that has absolutely no prospect of joining the EU, or NATO.


Blic Online reports . . . . Author: Tamara Spa - Tanja Trik 20.10.2009 said:

Medvedev's visit strengthens relations between Russia and Serbia

Belgrade center for spreading of Russian influence


Today's visit by the President of the Russian Federation Dmitri Medvedev to Belgrade shall mark in the first place energy positioning of Russia in the West Balkans and Serbia as a regional center from which Russia shall spread its influence.

Opinions about advantages of such partnership for Serbia are equally divided as they were when Serbia President Boris Tadic signed in Moscow the energy agreement and vary from entering energy dependence to support to Belgrade's leading position in the region . . . .

Konstantin Nikiforov, Director of the Institute for Slavic Studies of the Russian Academy of Science is of the opinion that Dmitri Medvedev's visit to Belgrade may strengthen Serbia's chances to become a regional energy center that Russia would rely on in the future.

He also does not exclude possibility that Serbia gets certain place in the new system of collective security being presently elaborated by Medvedev.

Serbia is also interesting to Russia as future EU member, i.e. as another bridge between Moscow and Brussels.

"Serbia's joining the EU shall not represent any danger for Russia, on the contrary, it shall be of benefit for Russia. We shall be the best friend of Russia in the EU. That shall be of help in all aspects of relations between the two countries", Serbia President Boris Tadic said yesterday in his interview with "News 24" television . . . .

Vladimir Gligorov, associate of the Vienna Institute for international economic studies claims that the obligations of Serbia arising from this partnership shall be far larger than benefits.

Serbia Prime Minister Mirko Cvetkovic said yesterday in talks with the Russian Minister for extraordinary situations Sergey Shoigy that "Serbia and Russia have good and close relations" and pointed out that "visit by the President Dmitri Medvedev has exceptional significance for improvement of bilateral relations".

Minister Shoigy said that "it is exceptionally important for the relations between Serbia and the Russian Federation that all main projects agreed at the latest session of the Russian-Serbian Commettee in Moscow have been finalized".

Blic Online | Belgrade center for spreading of Russian influence
 

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#4
RCT(V) said:
ONE

Although satisfactory progress seems to be being made, I have never understood why Serbia would want to join the EU . . .
Simple!

A) The political elite see it as the panacae to Serbia's economic woes. Ie. a 'quick fix' that will also allow them to avoid making the difficult choices (economic and political) that are needed.

B) The business class see it as a chance to get rich by exporting and selling goods in the EU manufactured by cheap Serbian labour.

C) The younger generation (20-30) see it as an opportunity to escape Serbia and their recent history - many think visa free travel means work permits!!!

Outside these 3 core groups, there is hardly any support for EU membership.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#5
whitecity said:
RCT(V) said:
ONE

Although satisfactory progress seems to be being made, I have never understood why Serbia would want to join the EU . . .
Simple!

A) The political elite see it as the panacae to Serbia's economic woes. Ie. a 'quick fix' that will also allow them to avoid making the difficult choices (economic and political) that are needed.

B) The business class see it as a chance to get rich by exporting and selling goods in the EU manufactured by cheap Serbian labour.

C) The younger generation (20-30) see it as an opportunity to escape Serbia and their recent history - many think visa free travel means work permits!!!

Outside these 3 core groups, there is hardly any support for EU membership.
You forgot:

D) Older generation who might think that some supra-national unity may help avoid ethnic tensions blowing up again, as it seems to have worked so far.
 
#6
Alsacien said:
whitecity said:
RCT(V) said:
ONE

Although satisfactory progress seems to be being made, I have never understood why Serbia would want to join the EU . . .
Simple!

A) The political elite see it as the panacae to Serbia's economic woes. Ie. a 'quick fix' that will also allow them to avoid making the difficult choices (economic and political) that are needed.

B) The business class see it as a chance to get rich by exporting and selling goods in the EU manufactured by cheap Serbian labour.

C) The younger generation (20-30) see it as an opportunity to escape Serbia and their recent history - many think visa free travel means work permits!!!

Outside these 3 core groups, there is hardly any support for EU membership.
You forgot:

D) Older generation who might think that some supra-national unity may help avoid ethnic tensions blowing up again, as it seems to have worked so far.
Nope. Older generation in Serbia is still very much of the opinion that Serbia should go it alone and stand on its own two feet come what may. Harp back to the Tito era (too blind to see the delusional fiction of the true situation he portrayed) and would settle for a Milosevic 2.0 if it became available.

Most popular party in Serbia at the moment is Nikolic's SNS who have only existed for 12 months since his/its break from Seselj and the SRS.
 
#7
whitecity said:
RCT(V) said:
ONE

Although satisfactory progress seems to be being made, I have never understood why Serbia would want to join the EU . . .
Simple!

A) The political elite see it as the panacae to Serbia's economic woes. Ie. a 'quick fix' that will also allow them to avoid making the difficult choices (economic and political) that are needed.

B) The business class see it as a chance to get rich by exporting and selling goods in the EU manufactured by cheap Serbian labour.

C) The younger generation (20-30) see it as an opportunity to escape Serbia and their recent history - many think visa free travel means work permits!!!

Outside these 3 core groups, there is hardly any support for EU membership.
Spot on.
 
#8
RCT(V) said:
...future for Serbia (with possibly Montenegro and Republika Srpska), would be within a formal political, economic and defence alliance with Russia (and other predominantly Slavic countries).
Unlikely it will happen. Russian policy now is very pragmatic. What such an alliance would give Russia? Nothing being quite expensive.

Personally I prefer united Europe with common economical, cultural spaces.

It is time to remove borders, barriers, obstacles not to create new ones.

I believe that in the future (and I hope not so remote) inhabitants of the territory of former Yugoslavia will discover that they have common currency (Euro), that they can settle anywhere they wish to live and that within the EU Yugoslavia would be in fact reunited.

As for the title of the thread then I heard that NATO bosses complained that if the Bulgarians take part in a meeting then its content goes directly to Moscow immediately.
 
#9
KGB_resident said:
RCT(V) said:
...future for Serbia (with possibly Montenegro and Republika Srpska), would be within a formal political, economic and defence alliance with Russia (and other predominantly Slavic countries).
Unlikely it will happen. Russian policy now is very pragmatic. What such an alliance would give Russia? Nothing being quite expensive.

Personally I prefer united Europe with common economical, cultural spaces.

It is time to remove borders, barriers, obstacles not to create new ones.

I believe that in the future (and I hope not so remote) inhabitants of the territory of former Yugoslavia will discover that they have common currency (Euro), that they can settle anywhere they wish to live and that within the EU Yugoslavia would be in fact reunited.

As for the title of the thread then I heard that NATO bosses complained that if the Bulgarians take part in a meeting then its content goes directly to Moscow immediately.
Since 2002 Russia has been an associate member of NATO anyway
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_51105.htm
So I suppose they let the Bulgarians go on their behalf to the boring meetings without the nice biscuits...
 
#10
whitecity said:
Alsacien said:
whitecity said:
RCT(V) said:
ONE

Although satisfactory progress seems to be being made, I have never understood why Serbia would want to join the EU . . .
Simple!

A) The political elite see it as the panacae to Serbia's economic woes. Ie. a 'quick fix' that will also allow them to avoid making the difficult choices (economic and political) that are needed.

B) The business class see it as a chance to get rich by exporting and selling goods in the EU manufactured by cheap Serbian labour.

C) The younger generation (20-30) see it as an opportunity to escape Serbia and their recent history - many think visa free travel means work permits!!!

Outside these 3 core groups, there is hardly any support for EU membership.
You forgot:

D) Older generation who might think that some supra-national unity may help avoid ethnic tensions blowing up again, as it seems to have worked so far.
Nope. Older generation in Serbia is still very much of the opinion that Serbia should go it alone and stand on its own two feet come what may. Harp back to the Tito era (too blind to see the delusional fiction of the true situation he portrayed) and would settle for a Milosevic 2.0 if it became available.

Most popular party in Serbia at the moment is Nikolic's SNS who have only existed for 12 months since his/its break from Seselj and the SRS.
All what Whitecity said. Forget the older generation of Serbia - they are too steeped in history with a slant - the slant being towards them and their point of view. But don't forget - it was also them who wanted the Russians out of Belgrade after the end of WW2! Don't equate Serbia with Jugoslavia - they are nowehere near the same thing either in economic capacity or politiccal thinking and outlook.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#11
whitecity said:
Alsacien said:
whitecity said:
RCT(V) said:
ONE

Although satisfactory progress seems to be being made, I have never understood why Serbia would want to join the EU . . .
Simple!

A) The political elite see it as the panacae to Serbia's economic woes. Ie. a 'quick fix' that will also allow them to avoid making the difficult choices (economic and political) that are needed.

B) The business class see it as a chance to get rich by exporting and selling goods in the EU manufactured by cheap Serbian labour.

C) The younger generation (20-30) see it as an opportunity to escape Serbia and their recent history - many think visa free travel means work permits!!!

Outside these 3 core groups, there is hardly any support for EU membership.
You forgot:

D) Older generation who might think that some supra-national unity may help avoid ethnic tensions blowing up again, as it seems to have worked so far.
Nope. Older generation in Serbia is still very much of the opinion that Serbia should go it alone and stand on its own two feet come what may. Harp back to the Tito era (too blind to see the delusional fiction of the true situation he portrayed) and would settle for a Milosevic 2.0 if it became available.

Most popular party in Serbia at the moment is Nikolic's SNS who have only existed for 12 months since his/its break from Seselj and the SRS.
Maybe I should have been more specific.
I agree with the pensioners - but the folks I'm coming into contact with now - loosely businessmen in Financial and IT sectors trading in Europe - are around 40. There biggest fear seems to be a re-sparking of tension that would kill their enterprises (which seem to only in Serbia anyway).
This could of course be a bit bogus, as its a concern expressed more at them than from them I suspect.....
 
#12
The coldwar is over Russia vs Nato is futile and pointless.
Obama giving up the missile shield farce helps that.
Europe does'nt need serbia or any of the other balkan states starting something or believing they have a big brother on there side that might tempt them to think they can get away with something :(
 
#13
whitecity said:
Alsacien said:
whitecity said:
RCT(V) said:
ONE

Although satisfactory progress seems to be being made, I have never understood why Serbia would want to join the EU . . .
Simple!

A) The political elite see it as the panacae to Serbia's economic woes. Ie. a 'quick fix' that will also allow them to avoid making the difficult choices (economic and political) that are needed.

B) The business class see it as a chance to get rich by exporting and selling goods in the EU manufactured by cheap Serbian labour.

C) The younger generation (20-30) see it as an opportunity to escape Serbia and their recent history - many think visa free travel means work permits!!!

Outside these 3 core groups, there is hardly any support for EU membership.
You forgot:

D) Older generation who might think that some supra-national unity may help avoid ethnic tensions blowing up again, as it seems to have worked so far.
Nope. Older generation in Serbia is still very much of the opinion that Serbia should go it alone and stand on its own two feet come what may. Harp back to the Tito era (too blind to see the delusional fiction of the true situation he portrayed) and would settle for a Milosevic 2.0 if it became available.

Most popular party in Serbia at the moment is Nikolic's SNS who have only existed for 12 months since his/its break from Seselj and the SRS.
My Bold...that's spot on, but as everywhere the old don't count.....
 
#14
RCT(V) said:
SETimes.com said:
Currently, the only EU member blocking the Interim Trade Agreement is the Netherlands, which demands that fugitive Ratko Mladic be apprehended and extradited.
Anyone know why it's the Dutch that's holding it all up? Seems slightly out of character to me for them to be playing the awkward bastard for once.


RCT(V) said:
SETimes.com said:
Serbia, however, still has some work to do. The country must take a more constructive stance on Kosovo,
Translation - roll over and play dead when the international community decides it has the right to carve off a piece of your territory and make a brand new country out of it. Why we can't just negotiate some kind of devolved government or regional autonomy for the Kosovars within Serbia and be done with the whole thing I don't know but, that's another matter.
 
#15
Brick said:
RCT(V) said:
SETimes.com said:
Currently, the only EU member blocking the Interim Trade Agreement is the Netherlands, which demands that fugitive Ratko Mladic be apprehended and extradited.
Anyone know why it's the Dutch that's holding it all up? Seems slightly out of character to me for them to be playing the awkward bastard for once.


RCT(V) said:
SETimes.com said:
Serbia, however, still has some work to do. The country must take a more constructive stance on Kosovo,
Translation - roll over and play dead when the international community decides it has the right to carve off a piece of your territory and make a brand new country out of it. Why we can't just negotiate some kind of devolved government or regional autonomy for the Kosovars within Serbia and be done with the whole thing I don't know but, that's another matter.
Because the Dutch feel all guilty about Srebrenica. They are playing to a local Balkans audience but also to their own home team who remember iy an a national embarrassment!
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
Oh, good, Serbs can come here and live on benefits like Romanians and so forth. All helps towards the target 70 million UK population set in today's news for 2050.
 
#17
rickshaw-major said:
Because the Dutch feel all guilty about Srebrenica. They are playing to a local Balkans audience but also to their own home team who remember iy an a national embarrassment!
Ah yes, I forgot about that complete clusterfuck.
 
#18
rickshaw-major said:
Brick said:
Anyone know why it's the Dutch that's holding it all up? Seems slightly out of character to me for them to be playing the awkward bastard for once.
Because the Dutch feel all guilty about Srebrenica. They are playing to a local Balkans audience but also to their own home team who remember iy an a national embarrassment!
The very existence (and failure) of ICTY at The Hague also preys heavily on the Dutch since its within their own backyard.

The Dutch are VERY keen to have Mladic tried on Dutch soil and found WHOLLY guilty for Srebrenica.
 
#19
Alsacien said:
Maybe I should have been more specific.
I agree with the pensioners - but the folks I'm coming into contact with now - loosely businessmen in Financial and IT sectors trading in Europe - are around 40. There biggest fear seems to be a re-sparking of tension that would kill their enterprises (which seem to only in Serbia anyway).
This could of course be a bit bogus, as its a concern expressed more at them than from them I suspect.....
Well, I must also confess, that the "young" category that I explained above also includes many 30-40s who feel they lost their early adulthood - their 20s in the 1990s - to Milosevic, his policies, sanctions and war.

In fact, it would probably be better to define the category as 28-38 rather than 20-30 as many of the younger 20s now have little memory of the bad years except as wee kiddies. Indeed, the 18-25 age group are some of the most pro-independent or pro-Russian I can think of because of their experience of EU (west) attitude over the past 5-10 years.

It's VERY difficult to find anyone over 45 who supports joining the EU unless they see some personal profit (financial or political) to be made.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#20
whitecity said:
Alsacien said:
Maybe I should have been more specific.
I agree with the pensioners - but the folks I'm coming into contact with now - loosely businessmen in Financial and IT sectors trading in Europe - are around 40. There biggest fear seems to be a re-sparking of tension that would kill their enterprises (which seem to only in Serbia anyway).
This could of course be a bit bogus, as its a concern expressed more at them than from them I suspect.....
Well, I must also confess, that the "young" category that I explained above also includes many 30-40s who feel they lost their early adulthood - their 20s in the 1990s - to Milosevic, his policies, sanctions and war.

In fact, it would probably be better to define the category as 28-38 rather than 20-30 as many of the younger 20s now have little memory of the bad years except as wee kiddies. Indeed, the 18-25 age group are some of the most pro-independent or pro-Russian I can think of because of their experience of EU (west) attitude over the past 5-10 years.

It's VERY difficult to find anyone over 45 who supports joining the EU unless they see some personal profit (financial or political) to be made.
Yeah, I only meet those who have something to gain.
These guys are rather keen:
http://www.nbs.rs/internet/english/55/index.html

They like the european banking model, even if they are not pro-euro.
 

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