Septics vote for pull out of Troops

#1
The Americans, after initiating the invasion they are now wanting to pull out troops - basically leaving the job unfinished and all promises broken.. Can't you tell its close to Election time!!

Linky Bit
 
#3
The Americans do not want to make the-politically inconvenient-point about their having supported to (and in )power,a blatantly sectarian government.The claim that this government is the product of a democratic election is a fiction.While this Iraqi government remains in power,NOTHING will get better in Iraq.
 
#4
Don't turn this into an anti-american thread. Make no mistake, we are just as culpable as them (and regarded as such by the rest of the world). If they sink, we sink with them.
 
#5
if they do leave, we would have to as well, we couldn't do this on our own, we would be better concentrating our forces on Afghanistan as we are making progress there.
 
#6
wedge35 said:
Don't turn this into an anti-american thread. Make no mistake, we are just as culpable as them (and regarded as such by the rest of the world). If they sink, we sink with them.
I agree.

tony blair has during the course of his time as pm, become more and more controlling of the way that the our armed forces does its business. for example, the SL 'intervention', he was a new PM and for the most part let the armed forces get on with it, end result - success.

He now knows there is political capital to win and lose in the things our armed forces do. In trying to maintain the 'public face' of combat operations, he (along with GWB) is putting the lives of UK service personnel and indeed Iraqis at risk.

Let the people who are experts in the field make the decisions, and just let them get on with it. micro management rarely works, and then only with unskilled workers.

Ski.
 
#7
wedge35 said:
Don't turn this into an anti-american thread. Make no mistake, we are just as culpable as them (and regarded as such by the rest of the world). If they sink, we sink with them.
Agreed.

But the Americans have now stated that they will leave - within 4 months..... WTF are we and all the other people supposed to do ? The Iraqi people, what are they going to think - great come and get rid of Maddas and then fook off because the people of America don't want to be there and the Politicians are fighting for votes in the next election...

Does not look good and only makes them look bad in any light...
 
#8
Let's not get into America bashing. It is not the fault of the men and women of the US Army , being all they can be , that things have come to this.

There is one entity I will bash however, and that is the so called Government of Iraq. I don't have the words to describe my scorn and loathing.

I cannot summon the words to express the vitriol I have for the members of the US administration that didn't put their nation's best interests first.

My bile boils nicely, when I think of some of the players that influenced this mess , who have no elected mandate to steer America on the course that was chosen. Their collective bigotry , greed and servitude to other natoins and commercial interests, I am sure will out.

....and if there is a God, the Supreme Court will be busy for years.
 
#9
wedge35 said:
Don't turn this into an anti-american thread. Make no mistake, we are just as culpable as them (and regarded as such by the rest of the world). If they sink, we sink with them.
Not quite.

There is a subtle difference that is recognised by the 'rest of the world' i.e. while the US citizenry whole heartedly supported their govt's decision to invade Iraq, the British citizenry did not support their govt's decision to invade!

Therefore, the British public will not sink. Their govt might.
 
#10
Wija72 said:
wedge35 said:
Don't turn this into an anti-american thread. Make no mistake, we are just as culpable as them (and regarded as such by the rest of the world). If they sink, we sink with them.
Agreed.

But the Americans have now stated that they will leave - within 4 months..... WTF are we and all the other people supposed to do ? The Iraqi people, what are they going to think - great come and get rid of Maddas and then fook off because the people of America don't want to be there and the Politicians are fighting for votes in the next election...

Does not look good and only makes them look bad in any light...

No they havent stated they will leave in 4 months. Senate has passed the funding, and the attached condition will be vetoed by Mr Bush. This has happened before and it will happen again.

Pulling out will not solve the problem now, will it.
 
#11
This is just political grandstanding by a deocrat led congress. The president as CinC will ignore it and when push comes to shove the Democrats will not cut budget to such an extent that it costs lives. To do so would be political suicide.

Once elected and faced with reality of government, the democrats will not rush the withdrawel.
 
#12
Herrumph said:
This is just political grandstanding by a deocrat led congress. The president as CinC will ignore it and when push comes to shove the Democrats will not cut budget to such an extent that it costs lives. To do so would be political suicide.

Once elected and faced with reality of government, the democrats will not rush the withdrawel.
I agree with this statement!

Have you ever checked the polls on the US Congress?

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=27946
 
#13
Yes I have Trip. What do you think that means?

Do you think "Oh People hate the Democrats" considering they just voted them in in a landslide or,

Are the American people sick and tired of just how badly Congress has performed over the last few years, and the numerous scandals attached to Representatives?
 
#14
I'm of the opinion - based on what I have witnessed thus far - that there is going to be a good deal of jaw-droppingly hypocritical grandstanding on both sides of the political divide in the United States. It would seem that the Republicans are in danger of going into meltdown, such is their growing panic; equally, the Democrats look set to completely loose the run of themselves (see Pelosi's recent visit to the Middle East, which I imagine the Republicans are still laughing about) and look like a cross between the Puritans and the John Kerry Appreciation Society.

None of this is going to be pretty, and there seems to be a certain degree of Vietnam-era positioning as regards the US Armed Forces, with both sides loudly proclaiming their 'respect' and 'care' for the military, whilst seeking - and here the Dems are most culpable - to extract as much political capital as possible.

This most recent vote is merely the Democrats testing the waters and putting down a marker - Bush can and will veto it, and the Dems know they'll be crucified if they really push the issue and try to turn the military into a political football.
 
#15
I dare to make two suppositions thoug both have very high probabilty to be realised.

1. Highly esteemed mr.Bush will nor begin to reduce levels of troops in Iraq while he is a president.

2. The next American president will belong to the democratic party.

So why the Democrats are so active with early withdrawal? i guess to resolve their futere headache by hands of pres.Bush.

Likely the Democrats at power would reduce troops level in Iraq gradually and in a very slow pace. There would be attempts to revive programme of reconstruction. This morning I listened radio BBC in Russia in my car. A representative of the Democratic party in Russia answered question. I asked - would new Democratic administration negotiate with the insurgents. The representative answered that it is hardly possible taking into account large nubmer of independent groups and added that only few militias and tribal leaders cooperate with USA now.

So I make a conclusion that new democratic Administration would try to resolve Iraqi problem by this or that tricky methods. The idea is very simple. If the Democrats would be able at least to pacify Iraq then it would be a great achievement and the republicans would be ashamed as unskilled politicinas.

But all attempts of the Democrats will fail and the troops will be returned to home. Previously I think that the withdrawal would happen in 2010. Unlikely.
 
#16
It reminds me of the Vietnam spectacle, 1975, except this time British Forces are in it aswell. I don't criticise American troops any more than I would critcise our own, but American politicians are something else. After Vietnam a lot of people on this side of the Atlantic had their doubts about America's political will to fight a prolonged war, especially one involving a lot of casualties in the full glare of the media. Short wars are one thing, and do wonders for the opinion polls, but a slogging match doesn't fit with the American way of doing things post-Vietnam.

This has been a complete f*ckfest of the incompetent from begining to end. I can't help recalling the footage of Iraqi's looting everything in sight as Baghdad fell, and thinking at the time that that's not the way to run a war. And the bloated creatures propped up in power ever since, drip corruption from every pore. I suppose it's too much to hope that they won't be given a plush bolt hole here when the whole catastrophe they have created falls in on their heads.

America's leadership has created a legacy here which will long outlive the Bush administration, and which will seriously weaken the West's response to any further threats against it (and they will come). If they pull out purely in the interests of domestic political point scoring, then no foreign politician, not even a pro-American one, can possibly take their word as being their bond ever again, in foreign policy at least, given their post-Vietnam track record. They believed their own propaganda, and Blair was prepared to swallow it too, like the fool he is. If they do choose to end it, there is every chance that America will slip back into it's isolationist mode, made more severe by the fact that there is no Cold War compelling them to keep at least one eye on what goes on outside their own borders.

None of which is the fault of the troops doing the fighting and the dieing, for whom I have the greatest of respect.
 
#17
PartTimePongo said:
There is one entity I will bash however, and that is the so called Government of Iraq. I don't have the words to describe my scorn and loathing.

I cannot summon the words to express the vitriol I have for the members of the US administration that didn't put their nation's best interests first.

My bile boils nicely, when I think of some of the players that influenced this mess , who have no elected mandate to steer America on the course that was chosen. Their collective bigotry , greed and servitude to other natoins and commercial interests, I am sure will out.

....and if there is a God, the Supreme Court will be busy for years.
I wonder when the auditors will be going in to check on all those billions that were set aside for construction and those company directors taking fat cheques for the work they were supposed to do. With you on this one P_T_P there will be a lot of people called up for questioning about this and hopefully the fat cats wont be able to hide behind the politicians because theyll be up there aswell. If we do pull out with the yanks will the civvies remain behind though :?
 
#18
Was talking to a friend in DC today and the view there is that it's grandstanding: there's no way that anybody could put a date on a withdrawal.

But after "the surge" there will be troop reductions in Baghdad and to the south; 'tactical' stuff.

It won't happen while the shaven chimp is still in the White House, but once he's gone, the Democrats are more likely to focus attention on THE BIG STORY, which is about the Iraqi government and where all the trillions of dollars of aid have gone.
 
#19
If the politicians are only just thinking about what votes than can gain by running out on Iraq then I feel they could well find it is a short term gain. Just message does it send out to the terrorist, We will fight you until you fight back then we will go home and hope that you don't follow us back to America. For as politicians we hate the sight of blood especially ours so be good boys and keep your troubles in Iraq
 
#20
If one hates the sight of blood of one's own, then one must not go to war.

Iraq was taken to be a cakewalk, thanks to Chalabis and gang. The exit policy was not even thought of, if one goes by what is known in the public domain.

Unfortunately, it has proved otherwise.

Now, the US is on the horns of a dilemma. If they withdraw without a face saving device, it is a second Vietnam and a victory for the terrorist having defeated both the superpowers or hanging around without any solution and totting up the hapless dead.

Hardly a pleasant thought!
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
C The NAAFI Bar 87
Peli23 The NAAFI Bar 4
alib US 82

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top