Septics finally get clue about cars

KevinB said:
msr said:
Let’s Pay Detroit To Bring Their Gas Sipping Cars Home To The U.S.A.

This should have been done a long time ago, but there is a problem. Americans love their petrol guzzling SUVs, trucks and large cars. Was not til petrol reached near £2.7 that they started protesting.
You moron did you read the article? The whole reason the "Big 3" have problems making, these cars in the US or selling them is because of GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS.

That along with the legacy costs foisted upon them by the unions is, has been, and will continue to destroy the Big 3.

Any bail out is just delaying the inevitable, the government made this mess and the government can not solve it no matter how much money they print and throw at it.
And the yank public didn't help by buying these metal hunks of crap?

In terms of cars, engineering genius has passed the US by for years. The cars are moribund.
Ctauch, um, yes, I did read the whole article, now you read a bit about CAFE standards...

"...Consumer taste is the oft-ignored crucible where the success or failure of CAFE standards will be decided. That’s because the federal government judges compliance not on what auto makers build, but on what American drivers buy..."


"...This year (2007), trucks and SUVs account for 54 percent of new vehicles sold, said GM’s McDonald. As for the much-vaunted trend toward smaller cars, McDonald offered this stark perspective: Yes, there’s a slight downward trend in truck sales. Last year, they accounted for 55 percent..."


"...“Americans want what Americans have always wanted since day one,” Pipas said. “Bigger. Go west. More room..."
Any of you catch the Top Gear episode when the debunked the Prius and it's ilk? Pretty interesting when a BMW sporting a V8 uses just a wee bit less fuel than the hybrid when driven in sensible manner. No doubt the US manufacturers dropped the ball and stayed with the SUV business plan whichj prooved untenable when fuel prices went up. They should have been looking at holding on to the average user market and producing reliabel products to counter their import rivals.
Then explain why Toyota and GM sold the same amount of vehicles in 2007 and GM lost money and Toyota made money.

Both companies must adhere to CAFE standards dictated by the FED.

Both companies offer a wide range of vehicles, including Trucks and SUV's. Both offer gas sippers and guzzelers!

Simple GM is paying their unionized force 2 times what Toyota pays their non-union workers $80/hour vs. $40/hour.

Every GM vehicle has a $2000 union legacy cost included in the price, Toyota can offer a car of equal value with more features and comforts.

Furthermore you can't legislate what people drive, which is what the dems have tried and failed to do for years and why they invented the CAFE standards. People buy what they need and want, not what some pinhead in DC tells them they should buy.

You are an IRA sympathising socialist assclown, fark off the US is full up of your ilk and you are the problem not the solution!
Ah, the cut and thrust of reasoned debate, US style.
Or just invade-literally, attack the man.

God bless Amerca...
KevinB said:
Northern Monkey said:
Ah, the cut and thrust of reasoned debate, US style.
Exactly, NM. When you are losing a debate in US, throw in an argumentum ad hominem. Is quite popular in political circles.
Every one of your boneheaded arguments starts or ends with "the government should do x". The government should get the fuck out of the way, every time they have a good intention on fixing something they break something else or make it worse.

This auto industry bailout is a democratic stunt to shore up union support, and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. There are rule, laws and procedures in place to allow a failing company to reorganize, it’s called bankruptcy. Why not just let that take its course. Well because as part of it the unions would get the short end of the stick and secondly this is a great opportunity to nationalize the auto industry, which is really the end game of the socialist minded cunts that currently make up the democrat leadership in congress and come Jan 20 2009 the white house.

SUV’s are what they are and are bought for differing reasons, they serve a purpose there is a market for them and they have helped keep the Big 3 afloat. If you look at the mix of cars on the market both foreign and domestics you will see that the Big 3 cater to all niches, small compacts, mid size to large sedans, SUVs and Trucks. SUVs and Trucks make up the large part of the sales as they are a specialty of the Big 3, the only competition in that arena is Toyota with the Sequoia and Tundra.

SUV’s are bought as a status symbol, but mostly they are needed. I elected to get a mini van (Sienna) instead of a SUV (Highlander or Sequoia). You see I have 1 sprog and another on the way. I own a home with a bit of property, and drive on holiday about 2 – 3 times a year to vacation homes I own and that are several hours away. My wife has a side business that requires her to attend events throughout the year and haul product for sale. Further more I live in an area where 6 out of the 12 months a year I may need to evacuate due to hurricanes. A SUV, mini van, or truck are not just bought because they are cool they serve a purpose, a bit difficult to pack up enough supplies and the family in a small battery powered shit box and drive several hundred miles to safety if a evacuation order is given, or do the same to go on holiday. It’s hard to haul home bags of mulch, and other supplies for landscaping, bits and bobbles to repair a 6’ tall fence, or any other home repairs that arise, in a “smart car”.

I’m not going to have some bonehead in DC that hasn’t worked a day of their life, in the real world, tell me what type of vehicle I need or can have.

Government has never solved a problem. They enact CAFÉ standards in 1975 because of an oil embargo, yet also make it difficult to drill for oil in the US. They enact the New Deal and extend the Great Depression by 10 years, they enact the Great Society and spend billions upon billions to eliminate poverty and there are still poor people. They enact CRA to provide affordable housing to “all” and lay the groundwork for the current financial crisis.


The government bailout of the auto industry is going to fail and cost billions in the process, billions that they will take from the People, and give it to the unions all as a political favor. Socialism at its best and a failure as always!
And what size engine do most of these necessary SUVs have on average?

Ctauch, do you own a gun?
Northern Monkey said:
And what size engine do most of these necessary SUVs have on average?

Ctauch, do you own a gun?
As big as needed to get the damn thing moving faster then a snail.

More then one. Why you asking? Are you getting jealous you can't own a big car and a gun and are subjected to driving a shitbox and being abused by armed pikey's with no means to defend yourself?
ctauch said:
Northern Monkey said:
And what size engine do most of these necessary SUVs have on average?

Ctauch, do you own a gun?
As big as needed to get the damn thing moving faster then a snail.

More then one. Why you asking? Are you getting jealous you can't own a big car and a gun and are subjected to driving a shitbox and being abused by armed pikey's with no means to defend yourself?

As much as I hate to agree with you, both points aren't far off the mark
Not to mention talk of an electric car is all the rage in liberal circles, yet those that say electric cars are the way forward are the same ones that are against building new power plants, whether they are gas, coal, or nuke. Even wind farms are poo pooed because they harm migrating birds or obstruct the view from the windows of their Martha Vineyard mansion.

So electric cars and no new electric generating sources to plug the thing into, that makes all the sense in the people will be lining up to buy an electric car.
Mr_Deputy said:
why we don't generate more tidal and wind power is beyond me. We are fcking Island for FFFFSSSSSS!!!!

If the Victorians could give us a sterling infrastructure legacy of power generation which burns stuff (made sense at the time and well executed) surely we should be leaving a legacy of the kinds of energy present in the very nature of our island with its violent seas and plenty of wind - as God probably intended.
Now you went and did it you just negated your entire argument...
The American love of big cars, SUVs and trucks has kept them very dependent on oil - a bad thing because:
1) the oil reserves in the world are decreasing, extracting them will become more and more costly
2) there is great competition for the oil supply from other nations, such as China and India
3) many of the reserves are in semi-hostile areas of the world
4) oil extracting and refining damages the environment.

So, yes, the gobment should have stepped in and forced the automakers to make fuel efficient cars and work much harder to develop technologies that used alternative fuels. And sorry, but there is no reason anyone 'needs' a semi-tank to take their children to soccer, go back and forth to their vacation home (excuse me if I don't have too much sympathy) etc. A pick up truck can be used to carry materials, if need be, for construction etc. But SUVs are meant as recreation, not work, vehicles. Efficient and small station wagons can do the job of SUVs just as well - I know, they are not big and flashy status symbols, but the time for that is passed, America.
Northern Monkey:
I own a medium sports ute, drive to work in a 4 door sedan (work issued) and own guns. (2 riifles, one pump shotgun and several handguns)

Kevin B: Government regulations required lower emissions but made cars less fuel efficient. The CAFE rules have forced Detroit to install smaller engines in most cars/suv's. I own a medium SUV with a 6 cyl engine. My work car is a large sedan, a Ford CV Police Interceptor. As a public safety vehicle it is exempt from CAFE rules and actually gets less miles per gallon than the SUV (19mpg vs 24mpg). (it does handle well and will go quite fast however and has the capacity to power things like strobes, computer, siren etc).

Things in the US are spread out more and some services are lacking. In most towns in my state there is no rubbish pickup so you bring trash to a transfer station or landfill. It is 10 miles roundtrip to the transfer station in my town. A Corolla would have room for one trash barrel or recycling bin, my SUV will hold 5 or 6 but usually I am transporting 4. 10 miles at 24 mpg burns less fuel than 40 miles at 40 mpg so the SUV is actually more economical.

In my part of the US we get a lot of snow, not an inch or two of pretty fluffy stuff but a foot or two of wet heavy nasty $hitty stuff that would leave a Corrola stuck till the spring thaw. Most people cannot sit inside sipping cocoa when it snows but have to go to work. They need a vehicle that will get them through the snow. A small sedan is OK for taking kids to soccer. Soccer is a fine sport for boys who are not, erm... manly enough for contact sports like football, lacrosse or ice hockey but there is a lot less equipment. Try fitting 3 or 4 kids with bulky bags of hockey kit and 6-8 hockey sticks in a small sake-burner. Then drive them to a rink 20, 30, 40 miles away before dawn is a snowstorm. You will become a SUV convert quite rapidly.

I know of a police department that has actually purchased a few Toyota hybrid cars for patrol use. When an arrest is made problems arise as you cannot safely fit prisoners in the back. Therefore the officers have to wait for a police van to transport the prisoners and follow the van back to the booking area. Two vehicles and three officers are now doing the work previously done by two officers and one vehicle and more fuel is wasted.
In addition the computer takes up some of the seating area and officers over about 6 feet, encumbered with radios, gunbelts and body armor are slower exiting the vehicle.

I would continue but there is about a half inch of ice on all outdoor surfaces and I have to go spread sand on the walk so I don't break my ar$e on the way to the car.

Ctauch: sometimes I hate all Florida people!!!!!

edited to add: Kevin B, there has not been a full sized station wagon made in the US for 10 or 15 years due to government regulations, primarily CAFE. There are some small wagons, not much more than hatchbacks really they have no real cargo area to speak of.
ctauch said:
Are you getting jealous you can't own a big car and a gun and are subjected to driving a shitbox and being abused by armed pikey's with no means to defend yourself?
I say! That was below the belt!

fcuking true though
there will be only one left by new year-ford.
the other 2 are bankrupt and the busness plan is more money from the federal govt.
there is none left.
think one might be saved-two at push,but 3-no.
americans should be allowed to build what they like for the home market.
and up to them if they want to compete against the competition in all other markets.
no one here in asia buys american much-its japcrap all the way.
and korean crud.
cheap,reliable(sort of),and small enough for the roads with good fuel consuption.
even the ex yank colonies dont buy yank cars.
but if you want a classic car-its brit or yank.
ahh a 50s detriot special in red or a 30s brit sports in racing green.
anyone think we will talk about a millenium classic toyota in 20 years?

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