Septic ATF arming Mexican drugs cartels

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by pp0470, Mar 5, 2011.

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  1. Brilliant!
     
  2. Is the problem Mexico not being able to prevent smuggling of 'Drugs' or the US's consumption.
    I understand over 3,000 + civilians died in Mexico last year compared with 2,500 in Afghanistan.

    john
     
  3. In another thread recently I pointed out that the majority of arms (probably abt 70%) goes in from the USA. Goldbricker chose to dissent from that point of view, but then perhaps that's part of the problem.....
     
  4. Americans hate the atf after waco and its inablility to let them have tactical nukes rpgs and machine guns at will :)
     
  5. Except in Texas.^~
     
  6. Isn't it against the law not to be armed there, if you don't have a criminal record? Or is that Kansas?
     
  7. don't think its against the law. Just considered weird and untexan:)
    their was a case where a couple of bad guys shot a highway patrol man and were about to finish him off.
    Local hunter saw what was going on and killed the bad guys with headshots. saved the coppers life got a reward from the judge:)

    ugly tried that here against the next dereck bird might not go to jail
     
  8. I once inquired about registering and storing firearms as a UK national in Texas (I was considering doing part of a degree there). I was told it would be 3 days before I could carry it in public.... 0.o
     
  9. yanks get upset about th ATF because it enforces the rather random nature of spam gunlaws.
    the bonkers "assualt rifle ban"
    which was nothing of the sort.
    at least in this country semi-autos over .22 banned it maybe be shit but at least clear cut.
    the yanks decided that things like bayonet lugs and folding stocks made an assualt a rifle so you could have four "evil" features and it was legal have 5 your going to jail boy.
    also a certain % of any weapon had to be nice safe civillian parts not evil surplus parts.

    to add to the fun a flash hider is an evil part but a muzzle break isn't diffrence depends what the maker calls it in the part catalouge.
    so plenty of paranoia and lawyers fees avialable.
    does nothing to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and nutters though.
     
  10. Opinions differ. Mexico appears to be coming to terms with the drug trade and moving to a position where it is managed rather than try and eliminate it. Part of this is pragmatic - arguably the ceaseless demand for drugs from the US means abolition is, as it has always been, impossible. Even if it were possible the sheer amount of money available to the cartels mean the effort would cost the Mexican Govt an absolute fortune in blood and treasure. The favoured career path for the elite drug enforcer is, after all, to train up working for Mexican special forces. Hence the current position where they merely try to keep a lid on things.

    Of course they can't tell the US that so you see a lot of heat and noise generated to hide the fact, add to that the traditional historic resentments and both sides glare at each other a lot but time after time have to come to terms with the fact that they are neighbours and have to get on somehow.

    Hence the fuss about weapons is part of this. The base data is more nuanced, most weapons that can be traced come from the US. Note the "can be traced" bit. There are however untold untraceable weapons (AKs and the like) sloshing around and no-one has a clue on numbers or supply rates. US sourced weapons also tend to be higher profile status weapons or high end capability (eg .50 sniper) so they get more attention.

    There is a small but noticeable trend in US intelligence discussions to start taking notice of South America. As the Mexican cartels increase their operations in the US I fear our cousins are in for a nasty shock - if what happens daily in the border towns comes to the US then they won't know what has hit them. As you point out, the Mexicans get a 9/11 body count every year at the moment.
     
  11. The 1994 "Assault Weapons Ban" sunsetted on Sept. 13, 2004 your quite behind the times. there is no more federal restriction on flash hiders, nor Bayonet lugs
    Also with a permit from the ATF one can own a Vickers fully operational or any other Machinegun. Since the National Firearms act of 1934 was out into place there have been 2 cases were a registered Machinegun was used in a crime.
    1 was a MAC10 used by a Doctor to kill his romantic rival

    1 was a MAC10 again by a Police Officer to murder a confidential drug informant

    Not too shabby for the over 300,000 registered Machineguns on the NFA list since 1934.
    to own a Machinegun:
    ATF form 4
    http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

    to own a Normal firearm (Rifle, pistol, shotgun):
    http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf

    You also have your name, ssn number sent to the Department of Justice to see if you are a Prohibited person
    FBI — Gun Checks/NICS

    takes about 10-15 minutes to get a Go or No from the FBI.

    Those are the Federal laws, each State and Municipality can add to the restrictions as they like.

    As an example here in NYC, an M1 carbine is an assault rifle prohibited by law (Garands almost were banned as well). In NY State, Bayonet lugs on an AR-15, M1A, AK, SKS are banned as evil though the DOJ shows no one was ever murdered by fixed bayonet in the USA.
     
  12. It's always been American policy to undermine the Mexican government and provide weapons for mexican dissident groups. Here's one example clutching the evidence, Emiliano Zapata Salazar:

    [​IMG]

    It now needs to be deniable, or at least in Washington.
     
  13. Back in the days of Open carry in the 1980's I used to regularly pack either My 1911 or a Colt SAA (.45LC) 4-3/4" bbl and walk past the Bell county sheriff or deputy sheriff and shoot the breeze with them. Then if I had carried Concealed I would have gone to jail, but open carry was fine. Funny thing crime was very low and anyone caught in a Burglary could be shot virtually no questions asked (home is a castle and all that). The only home in my neighborhood that was robbed, turned out to be some liberal from Massachusetts who didnt believe in guns. Karma I guess.
     
  14. sorry got confused with state and federal laws california has the most insane.
    although city gun bans intrest me. how they are suppoused to help when you can buy what the hell you lik outside of the city limits I've no idea.
    bad guys don't like the suburbs or what?