Seperatist movements in the EU

#82
To play devil's advocate, would an EU made up of smaller states, each with less clout economically, not be the ideal for the federalists of the EU? Less opposition, more dependence on the collective for foreign policy, defence, etc? Finally achieving the dream of a USE without major powers in it?
I'd say yes and if played properly it might be a very good idea, lots of local autonomy makes people feel relaxed in their local identity, but the USE has real power dealing with the US/China, but the way the current EU is run, centralist bureaucratic diktat, no and getting rid of that is well beyond the capability of the current EU because it's the bureaucrats who hold the real power.
 
#83
Closer to home, I wonder what sort of government an independent Scotland (minus its own separatist movements, of course!) might have? Not healthy to start out on life with a dominant political party that has focussed on propaganda and enmity for decades, instead of good governance. How will power and influence be distributed? Where will the corrective mechanisms come from, if most of the Establishment is drawn from the same small pool?
The history of all the states that left the British empire gives you the full range of options to study, from NZ to Zimbabwe.
 
#85
Yet the Spanish state seems to be doing the whole war thing. Mind most is just dago willy waving
The two sides are just setting out their negotiating positions. The police just beat up a few hapless street performance artists for which they've already said sorry.
 

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#86
Only if you're a) afraid of change b) have a vested interest in the status quo.
Anyone not scared by the prospect of civil unrest either does not live in the region or is stupid. IMHO!
 
#87
A good example of bad data. The maps shows area vote by land area with no relation to population, so some of those Scottish 'In' seats have significantly fewer voters than the corresponding English 'In' areas in the home counties. The reality of population demographics is that if 60% of England vote 'Yes' for something the whole of Scotland, Wales and NI can vote against and the UK will still vote 'Yes'. It's this complete insignificance that makes the Celts such chippy sods.
 
#88
Anyone not scared by the prospect of civil unrest either does not live in the region or is stupid. IMHO!
Sorry I misunderstood your post, I thought you were referring to separatism in general; violence is never a good idea or a welcome thing.
 
#89
Suppose that is declared in Catalonia then where in the EU one could expect the next UDI probably with participation of polite little green men?
Fearing it could be Putin’s next target, Estonia prepares for guerrilla warfare that could usher in WWIII
With 90 per cent of its population of 58,000 either Russian or Russian speaking, Narva is probably the largest Russian city in the EU and more ethnically homogenous than Crimea at the time of annexation.
Like Ukraine’s Donbas region, Estonia’s north east is an economically deprived centre of heavy industry with a potentially porous land border with Russia. And tensions over language rights and conflicting views of the Second World War
Vladimir Alexeyev is a former chairman of the trade union...Today he insists talk of separatism in Narva is “complete idiocy” dreamt up by “paranoid” NATO generals. But in 1993, he was among a group of Narvan activists who drafted a constitution and organized a referendum on autonomy remarkably similar to that held in Crimea two years ago.
He himself remains a “stateless person” with a grey passport. But he says a Crimean-style uprising is impossible. NATO and Estonian planners fear, however, that Russian officials and media could attempt to stoke discontent from a distance.
Unlikely HM armed forces will fight in Catalonia with local separatists but what about Estonia?
 
#90
Torys have same amount of seats as Plaid in the assembly. They could have more but one went off in a huff (ironically now holds the power of balance in assembly) and the other is constantly in the bad books he is "Inderpendent Plaid Cymru".

Nationals are on a hiding to no where. Remember Leanne "housewife" Wood? Nicola Sturgon does not! Best bezzers in the debates, now Leanne has no power its bye bye.

I'm Welsh and proud but also British and proud.
 
#91
Wales is an oddity though, Labour MPs are fairly independent but still determined to show how incompetent they are and trying to put more effort into nepotism than the main Labour party, and meanwhile showing how badly run the NHS can be given half the chance

The best joke is when Jeremy Corbyn complains about how bad the NHS is run in Wales, whilst trying to not to notice it's Labour running it
 
#92
Enlighten me please. Show your wisdom, your superior knowledge.
It's called your insinuation that anything your country did involving Crimea, up to and including completely rigging a vote as well as invading a sovereign state against the terms of a treaty YOUR country had agreed to, was anything remotely comparable to even what happened in 1918 is beyond fantasy
 
#93
I heard an interesting bit this week on Radio 4 regarding the Scottish independence referendum. It said that neither London or Edinburgh wanted a UK wide vote as London knew the majority would vote for Scotland to leave. Edinburgh also knew this but really wanted to remain as they knew that London would then give them more powers and money whilst still being there to be used as whipping boy when things went wrong.
 
#94
I heard an interesting bit this week on Radio 4 regarding the Scottish independence referendum. It said that neither London or Edinburgh wanted a UK wide vote as London knew the majority would vote for Scotland to leave. Edinburgh also knew this but really wanted to remain as they knew that London would then give them more powers and money whilst still being there to be used as whipping boy when things went wrong.
That was clear when Salmond was backed into the "Yes/No" corner instead of the preferred "Yes/No/DevoMax" position by someone as inept as Cameron, they were not ready to call for the referendum but they just had to jump the gun and do so even though they had no plan for any possibility of things going "their" way. DevoMax was the preferred position, and that was whipped off the table PDQ.

Much as Cameron subsequently did regarding Brexit, suggesting there may well be a psychological trait of stupidity that must be present before becoming the leader of any political party.
 
#95
A bit like the Morgenthau Plan of 1944.. Didn't happen, though. The US went for the Marshall Plan and here we are today.


He also wanted large parts of it concreted over and to then the remaining parts to be nothing more than a peasant society of farmers - never allowed to build up industry again. After seeing the utter destruction and murderous actions of the feckers in a mere 6 years who can blame him?
 
#96
He also wanted large parts of it concreted over and to then the remaining parts to be nothing more than a peasant society of farmers - never allowed to build up industry again. After seeing the utter destruction and murderous actions of the feckers in a mere 6 years who can blame him?

It didn't happen, though, so it's neither here nor there. The Soviets did strip their occupied zone of its machinery and some of its rocket scientists (though the US did better in that particular competition).

Germany is re-united and doing rather well on a global level despite their current problems.
 
#97
It didn't happen, though, so it's neither here nor there. The Soviets did strip their occupied zone of its machinery and some of its rocket scientists (though the US did better in that particular competition).

Germany is re-united and doing rather well on a global level despite their current problems.

Yep, and lots of others things are also neither here nor there ..as for Germany's ability to keep on doing rather well on a global level?..... let's see what the future brings as it seems that their clever little game may go the same way as other their regimes.
 
#98
Outer Hebredese? Are they after independence from Scotland or GB?
 
Wales is an oddity though, Labour MPs are fairly independent but still determined to show how incompetent they are and trying to put more effort into nepotism than the main Labour party, and meanwhile showing how badly run the NHS can be given half the chance

The best joke is when Jeremy Corbyn complains about how bad the NHS is run in Wales, whilst trying to not to notice it's Labour running it
Wales is mainly an Agricultural Country - apart from the two strips of Land,one on the North Coast and one on the South Coast - as they have so much land, it's pushed up into Mountains !

Most of the Plaid Cymru demands have been met by successive Govts., in London,thus weakening Plaid Cymru's Raison d'Etre.
There are now Welsh speaking Schools / Welsh road signs AND the Welsh Language ( Defod Y Ddraig ) which many 'luke warm' Nationalists WERE interested in - therefore,what is left ?

The point raised about nepotism is well said - oddly enough by Labour Party supporters - and signs are showing there is a weakening of Labour support.

Former rabid supporters of Independence,have realised that an Independent Wales could not survive economically.

Apart from Farming / Retirement Homes / the smattering of Companies in hi-tech is not enough to support Independence.
 

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