seperated - ex moving away with children.

#1
folks, i've got a problem.

after two years of me working away from home to cover up the the catastrophe that was our marriage, we finally decided to seperate and then divorce. however its gone tits up.

we were living in Scotland, my wifes home (but with very little family), after 18 months of me working in wales we all - but with my wife as the big protagonist - decided that it would be best if she and our then 6 yo daughter moved to the south of england. she found a decent job, we got a nice home and a brilliant school that has identified a couple of issues that the scottish school completely missed, and is now making great progress on. in addition, its not far from my parents and they play a big part in my daughters life, as well as saving us a fortune in child care. after a year of this 'happy truce' we have decided that its time to stop pretending and to seperate and then divorce - but trying to stay amicable and have 'no change' for our daughter.

this lasted one week.

my wife has decided that next summer she's going to move back to Scotland with our daughter, she's already got a job lined up, and that - apparently, is that.

now, i have number of issues with this, but the biggest one is my wifes seeming disregard for the fact that our daughters schooling is obviously going to suffer - as i said, she in an outstanding school that have done miracles - and the contact issue: i currently have her one weekend in two, and see her twice each week. if she moves to scotland i'll be lucky to be able to afford to see her one weekend in three, and no weektime contact.

i'm incredibly unhappy about this decision - and i only found out after both my daughter and the school were told.

obviously i'm going to talk to a solicitor about this, my wife isn't interested in talking about it, its done as far as she's concerned and she doesn't care about my views.

can any arrsers with experience help with what they think i might be able to achieve - am i just the cashpoint with no rights, can i stop my wife moving hundreds of miles and changing our daughters school for the second time in 18 months with not so much as a 'by-your-leave' - can my wife just do what the fcuk she likes and to hell with how it affects my daughters life?
 
#2
I assume there is no contact order in place at the moment?

Unfortunately she can move within the UK without your permission. If she wanted to leave the UK (to live) she would have to get your permission.

You need to see a solicitor and see if there is anything you can do about her moving but to be honest I think you would be hard pushed to change it; unless you can demonstrate there will be a serious welfare issue - the schooling may be key but a solicitor should be able to advise.

Is the travel being split at all or will it all be down to you. You should explore the option of a contact order being put into place and push for 50/50 shareded travel and specify the periods of contact you can have your daughter.
 
#3
Unfortunately mate, there is very little you can do to stop her moving. I'll first caveat this by saying that I'm not a solicitor and this isn't legal advice.

She has a right to move anywhere in the UK and the courts will not stop her without a VERY good reason, and if she tells them that she is unhappy down south and wants to move somewhere where she knows she will be happy, have a job, etc then that is a pretty good reason. As long as she can show that she has found a decent school for your daughter then there is no real argument there either unless your daughter has significant needs that only the school down south could address etc.

The good news though is that as weekend visits will be difficult for you, the court would probably view it as reasonable that you instead have a significantly larger portion of all the school holidays including Christmas, summer and Easter. I know that's not the same as seeing her regularly but it's clearly a good start from which to then negotiate weekends as well.

It is also possible to get the courts to rule that all travel should be split, ie you pick her up from your ex and then your ex has to come and get her, again not brilliant but better than nothing.

Go and see a solicitor who specialises in family law and ask their opinion as well.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
Get a good solicitor, a really good one. Talk to him or her.
Stay away from websites even this one (except for fun and entertainment).
It's going to get a lot worse and then it'll get better.
Good luck and remember to breathe.

Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk
 
#5
Go with it mate, your ex wants to be closer to her relatives (I presume) be supportive, explain to your daughter that visits will be harder, that you still love her and will visit when you can. The problem identified by the school has been recognised and a scottish school will cater also I'd imagine.

She will have free university tuition saving her (and you) thousands. She will grow up to know how to spell separated ;-)
 
#6
Go and see a solicitor who specialises in Divorce - The bloke you used to do your house conveyancing won't do. Do not under any circumstances send any inflammatory texts or emails to your ex...quite the contrary ..and try to converse as much on email as you can to keep a record of the conversation ..keep calm. And I would advise that you avoid becoming involved with the CSA.
 
#7
I am not sure what you are wanting. I think you are asking for a court to stop someone moving house because they changed jobs. Look at this from how the court will see this. Single parent with child finds a job in Scotland, moves house, child moves school - problem solved.

Oh, and by the way, her estranged ex is in the military and moves every 2-3 yrs with his job, but wants to decide where his ex lives.
 
#8
Sorry to hear bud. I had a similar situation. But aslong as she remains within the UK ( how much longer will Scotland be in the UK ?? ) Theres not alot you can do. Whos divorcing who ? & where will it be finalised ? England & Scotland have diffrent laws dont forget. My advice is to see a good lawyer .. be reasonable with her as a long drawn out legal battle will cost finacially & emotionally & focus your attention on the " Arrangements for children" part of the process. Sadly men are just seen as sperm doners & you will find yourself pissing against the wind for the most part of it. Forget all the "its just not fair" , "he said she said" stuff & base your argument on the best intrests for the kids. Distance can become a factor when child support is organised & you may be able to claim a lil traveling expenses to maintain contact. I know its hard but restrain yourself from running your mouth at her , for your sake you have to portray yourself as the peacemaker in all this.. just wanting good acess & the best for the kids. You could try for custody but unless shes a druggy/alco/crack whore you,ll have to have a pretty damn good cast iron argument. Good luck mate & remember to bite your lip , swallow your pride & paint yourself as the good guy. Most importantly... MAINTAIN CONTACT with the kids.. keep skype records , phone bills , recipts for kids clothes , Emails, days out at the zoo etc etc & NEVER bad mouth thier mum infront of them. Time to get your game on. Good luck once again.

LT.
 
#9
Sorry to hear bud. I had a similar situation. But aslong as she remains within the UK ( how much longer will Scotland be in the UK ?? ) Theres not alot you can do. Whos divorcing who ? & where will it be finalised ? England & Scotland have diffrent laws dont forget. My advice is to see a good lawyer .. be reasonable with her as a long drawn out legal battle will cost finacially & emotionally & focus your attention on the " Arrangements for children" part of the process. Sadly men are just seen as sperm doners & you will find yourself pissing against the wind for the most part of it. Forget all the "its just not fair" , "he said she said" stuff & base your argument on the best intrests for the kids. Distance can become a factor when child support is organised & you may be able to claim a lil traveling expenses to maintain contact. I know its hard but restrain yourself from running your mouth at her , for your sake you have to portray yourself as the peacemaker in all this.. just wanting good acess & the best for the kids. You could try for custody but unless shes a druggy/alco/crack whore you,ll have to have a pretty damn good cast iron argument. Good luck mate & remember to bite your lip , swallow your pride & paint yourself as the good guy. Most importantly... MAINTAIN CONTACT with the kids.. keep skype records , phone bills , recipts for kids clothes , Emails, days out at the zoo etc etc & NEVER bad mouth thier mum infront of them. Time to get your game on. Good luck once again.

LT.
Agree - What he said.
 
#10
I went through exactly the same scenario. One point to note is that Scottish law is different from English law and as such if she goes you will need to go through their channels with respect to access orders etc.

I was lucky, my ex and I managed to stay civil and we actually get on OK no but I sympathise with you massively. The year my boy was up in Glasgow (Im in Tidworth) was the worst of my life. If you can work it out between you and keep it civil then do so. The only people who profit from divorce are lawyers. If you piss her off and it goes to court she will feck you over and it will cost you a fortune to boot.

Hope it works out for you
 
#11
cheers gents - so, i'm fucked.

i've an appointment with a proper family law solicitor on monday morning, and so far i've managed to supress my desire to scream at the woman.

i think i'm going to explore going for custody (no, don't laugh at the back...) as in the half hour chat we had we had about this today, not 1 second was devoted to how it would be best for my daughter. she's not happy where she is - well, i'm not happy living in a bedsit and missing my daughter grow up so that my wife can work part-time and have a new smartphone.

i am well fcuked off at this stage...

as an aside, is there any point in starting divorce proceedings while she's still in England, or, if she moves to Scotland, will the whole lot be thrown away and we'll have to start again?
 
#12
I went through exactly the same scenario. One point to note is that Scottish law is different from English law and as such if she goes you will need to go through their channels with respect to access orders etc.

I was lucky, my ex and I managed to stay civil and we actually get on OK no but I sympathise with you massively. The year my boy was up in Glasgow (Im in Tidworth) was the worst of my life. If you can work it out between you and keep it civil then do so. The only people who profit from divorce are lawyers. If you piss her off and it goes to court she will feck you over and it will cost you a fortune to boot.

Hope it works out for you
Trying to stay Civil , is the key to any semi decent divorce deal for a man ( you,ll never get a good one). My kids ended up a 4hr trip away & thro me being "civil" In the arrangments for children document it was agreed I,ll pick up & she,ll collect. Ok we now meet half way but thats one of the benifits of being civil as in you can work shit out amoungst yourselves. Nothing harms a kid more than seeing mum & dad ripping each others throats out. & yeah lawyers LOVE a bitter split, esp Barristers on 500 + an hour. I went thro a mediation service we had the whole ball game done & dusted in 3 sessions , a memorandum of understanding was drawn up inc the arrangements for children bit, the judge flicked thro it and BAM Decree absolute granted, Its when things get ugly & the judge has to decide for his/herself its gone pete tong... esp if the judge is of the short haired sensible shoe wearing female fraternity lol.

LT
 
#13
cheers gents - so, i'm fucked.

i've an appointment with a proper family law solicitor on monday morning, and so far i've managed to supress my desire to scream at the woman.

i think i'm going to explore going for custody (no, don't laugh at the back...) as in the half hour chat we had we had about this today, not 1 second was devoted to how it would be best for my daughter. she's not happy where she is - well, i'm not happy living in a bedsit and missing my daughter grow up so that my wife can work part-time and have a new smartphone.

i am well fcuked off at this stage...

as an aside, is there any point in starting divorce proceedings while she's still in England, or, if she moves to Scotland, will the whole lot be thrown away and we'll have to start again?
Wherever the divorce is petioned is where it will be held.

LT
 
#14
Just a quicky... If your divorce is made absolute in England. Then your ex moves to Scotland it still stands. If she wants to amend the arrangements for children & applies to a Scottish court to do so then thier laws will apply to her. But Scotland is not some ass backward forgien country ( yet lol ) & it will be some kind of chippy judge who would look at the arrangements ( agreed by both of you) & ammend them. At the end of the day they.. like you just want the best deal for the kids & I dont think a jock judge would see any need to change anything that you both have agreed to.

LT
 

samm1551

Old-Salt
Book Reviewer
#15
As a matter of interest why are you looking at going for custody? I am not trying to sound antaganostic but all the court should be interested in (if it gets that far) is the welfare of the child. If you are posted every 2-3 years or you do deploy/go on exercise etc for long periods of time is it really in your childs best interest that they live with you full time?

If the mother of your child is any of the above posters suggestions then I completely understand, but if all she wants to do is better herself and provide for your child together I think it would be very unfair for you to change the status quo. Whilst children are very resilient a change like this can be very traumatic for them to have to go through a court case, even if they don't have to make an appearance themselves.

Whatever you eventually decide to do try and think about what your child would ultimately want. Obviously there are always other factors at play. In my circumstances I applied to court for leave of jurisdiction because I was marrying a serving soldier. My exh made our son's life a misery, constantly calling him up applying pressure on him to tell the court that he did not want to go. Unfortunately for him this backfired and our son rarely wants anything to do with his father anymore.

Anyway, I digress. I think you are really looking at applying for a 'Prohibitive Steps Order' to stop your wife from moving to Scotland. However I do not know how successful you would be in obtaining that order. Your solicitor will be able to advise you on Monday of that I am sure.

Good luck whatever happens. It will be a very stressful time.
 
#16
There has been some very realistic advice on this thread. Can I make two points?

1. Going for a Residence order. This will almost certainly fail. If she's a half decent mum and has thus far been fulfilling the role of primary carer - both of which seem to be the case - then it would take an earthquake to achieve a change in the residence arrangements. A residence order determines with whom the child shall live - not where the child shall live. If Mum's plan to move to Scotland is relatively well thought through and planned (i.e. she's thought about accommodation, a job, and schooling) then the court is highly unlikely to stop her going, which brings me on to point two:

2. A prohibited steps order (as it says on the tin) prohibits someone from doing something - in this case moving to Scotland with a child. The court will not readily step in and make such a draconian order. I have known courts to delay moves to ensure matters such as contact, education etc are sorted, but in the end the move will happen.

An application for either order will be received in much the same way by your ex as the Yanks viewed the attack on Pearl Harbour. It is going to have a seriously bad effect on relations between the two of you for evermore. With her likely to be a very long way away in Scotland the only way you can hope for a decent(ish) relationship with your child is to be able to co-parent co-operatively and reasonably with the ex. That means being supportive of her, non-confrontational etc etc as the other posters have said.

No doubt your solicitor will tell you this sort of thing on Monday. I agree with the advice that says get somethiing agreed amicably. I would also suggest that it is recorded in writing, in case things go tits up later.

Good luck, and I hope it all goes as well as one might hope given the circumstances.
 
#17
...An application for either order will be received in much the same way by your ex as the Yanks viewed the attack on Pearl Harbour. It is going to have a seriously bad effect on relations between the two of you for evermore. With her likely to be a very long way away in Scotland the only way you can hope for a decent(ish) relationship with your child is to be able to co-parent co-operatively and reasonably with the ex. That means being supportive of her, non-confrontational etc etc as the other posters have said....
cheers.

i'm trying, i really am, but i see this as having the effect - whether thats the intention or not - of ending my relationship with my daughter.

one of my big concerns is that there is family history here. she's from a big, matriarcal family where the blokes role is to provide the readies, and thats it. both her mother (dead) and aunt are divorced from previous partners - none of the children involved have any contact with their fathers from the day of the divorce. to my wife and her sister, her father is 'him' and always has been. its exactly the same situation with cousins.

four divorces in the family, and not one civil(ish) continuing relationship among them. co-incidence?

this is why i'm feeling a bit desperate (and yes, i'm aware that its the 'feeling' word again). i genuinely see my daughter dissapearing into a black hole of hatred and poison - not to mention regular family bustups, shit schools and no sunshine.
 
#18
Your Solicitor will always advise that there is a chance that you will gain residency. Remember it's a business for them the more correspondence / court appearances they can generate the more you will be charged. Think of £10,000 + as the bottom end. As has been said on here, bite the bullett and get as much visitation as possible.
 
#19
i'm trying, i really am, but i see this as having the effect - whether thats the intention or not - of ending my relationship with my daughter.

one of my big concerns is that there is family history here. she's from a big, matriarcal family where the blokes role is to provide the readies, and thats it. both her mother (dead) and aunt are divorced from previous partners - none of the children involved have any contact with their fathers from the day of the divorce. to my wife and her sister, her father is 'him' and always has been. its exactly the same situation with cousins.

four divorces in the family, and not one civil(ish) continuing relationship among them. co-incidence?

this is why i'm feeling a bit desperate (and yes, i'm aware that its the 'feeling' word again). i genuinely see my daughter dissapearing into a black hole of hatred and poison - not to mention regular family bustups, shit schools and no sunshine.

Sorry to be so depressingly negative about this, but the family history that you relate will not affect the judge's reasoning process. He/she will look at the circumstances of you and your ex and your child alone. He/she will not want to know, and will not care, about other relationship breakdowns in her extended family.

It is important for you to have a fully informed discussion with your solicitor on Monday, although in this case I doubt that he/she will say anything markedly different from the general thrust of most of the posters on this thread. I do agree with the warning you have been given about legal costs. No doubt you will be willing to pay a reasonable amount of money to ensure your daughter's wellbeing. However the huge amount of cash that you would end up throwing away in legal fees would pay for a couple of decent holidays for you both, along with dozens of trips worth of petrol to get you to Scotland and back.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#20
Get a good solicitor, a really good one...
Don't listen to him. Why waste you money on solicitors when you can get the best possible advice for free here on a website populated by fuckwits and squaddies (and fuckwit squaddies)? Why, only last week I found a cure for terminal cancer in the RAC forum and a solution to the Eurozone crisis in the NAAFI Bar.

Why do you do it mate? Are you desperate? Or just plain ******* stupid? Or are you the half a dozen other IDs who've recently plastered the site with other tales of woe?
 

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