Sensible idea from Farage

#2
But would this increase or decrease their representation?
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
true and an excuse to kick out a couple of uk ones. the provinces would be happy to pay for their own.

I read this a few days back - the thing about malta was very interesting.
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#5
A sensible idea, however he appears to be proposing one seat to represent all of the crown dependencies. I'm not sure how practical it would be for 260,000 people who live thousands of miles apart to vote for one MP.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#6
true and an excuse to kick out a couple of uk ones. the provinces would be happy to pay for their own.

I read this a few days back - the thing about malta was very interesting.
Following the Second World War in gratitude for sterling fortitude and defiance Malta was given the oppurtunity to become a constituient part of the UK, the proposal was mapped out by the eminent David Maxwell-Fyffe, the UK's sharp lawyer at the Nuremberg trials, Tory Cabinet Minister and architect of European Human Rights Law nad the ECHR. In the end Malta elected not to.

With regard to Farage's proposal, don't really agree with it. The UK currently has an oppurtunity to sort out the constitutional mess left by the previous administrations. In this regard it is time that the UK and it's OSTs should move to a federal form of govt wherin the Lords becomes the fully elected federal parliamnet of the UK and OSTs whilst the constituient nations, Scotland, England (HoC in that particular case), Gib, Wales, NI, Bermuda, Falklands all maintain a national parliament with devolved powers like that established under the Scotland Act. Legislation on a Fedral Level gets sent down, (rather than up) for scrutiny and amendment by these lower houses.

I have spoken to many people from the OSTs who would leap at the chance for this arrangement.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#7
A sensible idea, however he appears to be proposing one seat to represent all of the crown dependencies. I'm not sure how practical it would be for 260,000 people who live thousands of miles apart to vote for one MP.
See my previous... much more sensible.
 
#8
Following the Second World War in gratitude for sterling fortitude and defiance Malta was given the oppurtunity to become a constituient part of the UK, the proposal was mapped out by the eminent David Maxwell-Fyffe, the UK's sharp lawyer at the Nuremberg trials, Tory Cabinet Minister and architect of European Human Rights Law nad the ECHR. In the end Malta elected not to.

With regard to Farage's proposal, don't really agree with it. The UK currently has an oppurtunity to sort out the constitutional mess left by the previous administrations. In this regard it is time that the UK and it's OSTs should move to a federal form of govt wherin the Lords becomes the fully elected federal parliamnet of the UK and OSTs whilst the constituient nations, Scotland, England (HoC in that particular case), Gib, Wales, NI, Bermuda, Falklands all maintain a national parliament with devolved powers like that established under the Scotland Act. Legislation on a Fedral Level gets sent down, (rather than up) for scrutiny and amendment by these lower houses.

I have spoken to many people from the OSTs who would leap at the chance for this arrangement.
Very good idea but it is too sensible for our politicians to think about
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#9
Very good idea but it is too sensible for our politicians to think about
Possibly, I have been suggesting ever since the Scotland Act came into force and Holyrood was established, mentioned it to countless politicians and others, it's a position I have consistently maintained on ARRSE too, but the only people who have shown any interest have been the common fowk.
 
#10
In the end Malta elected not to.
I thought it was us that turned them down, rather than the other way around.

With regard to Farage's proposal, don't really agree with it. The UK currently has an oppurtunity to sort out the constitutional mess left by the previous administrations. In this regard it is time that the UK and it's OSTs should move to a federal form of govt wherin the Lords becomes the fully elected federal parliamnet of the UK and OSTs whilst the constituient nations, Scotland, England (HoC in that particular case), Gib, Wales, NI, Bermuda, Falklands all maintain a national parliament with devolved powers like that established under the Scotland Act. Legislation on a Fedral Level gets sent down, (rather than up) for scrutiny and amendment by these lower houses.

I have spoken to many people from the OSTs who would leap at the chance for this arrangement.
I have long toyed with that idea too (a fully federalised United Kingdom).

It makes so much sense but it would mean abolishing my beloved House of Lords as it now exists, one of the few good things left in British politics.

Also on a practical level you cannot have devolved heads of government vetoing federal laws. Presumably the Lords would have to act as a unicameral federal Parliament, in which case the PM of the UK would have to sit in the Lords.

It would be a BIG step change. Workable in theory and I do like it. I cannot see the establishment ever abandoning the current Westminster arrangment. A little over 200 years ago Britain decided it would rather lose the Americas than undergo any kind of constitutional evolution. Very little has changed. We might well lose the Scots in much the same way we lost the Yanks.
 
#11
Following the Second World War in gratitude for sterling fortitude and defiance Malta was given the oppurtunity to become a constituient part of the UK, the proposal was mapped out by the eminent David Maxwell-Fyffe, the UK's sharp lawyer at the Nuremberg trials, Tory Cabinet Minister and architect of European Human Rights Law nad the ECHR. In the end Malta elected not to.
Wee bit of a simplistic take on the matter there Rampant.
It would be fair to say that even quite a few of Don Mintoff's mob (including Mintoff) would have wanted the deal but the FO didn't and made the deal too salty to take.
Met Mr Mintoff a couple of times and he was nothing like he is portrayed in print.
 
#12
Possibly, I have been suggesting ever since the Scotland Act came into force and Holyrood was established, mentioned it to countless politicians and others, it's a position I have consistently maintained on ARRSE too, but the only people who have shown any interest have been the common fowk.

I like the idea myself. I also like their idea of scrapping MSPs and getting the work done by Scottish MPs instead. Might even be a good way for regional representation in England.

There's a several Million in cost savings straight away.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#13
Wee bit of a simplistic take on the matter there Rampant.
It would be fair to say that even quite a few of Don Mintoff's mob (including Mintoff) would have wanted the deal but the FO didn't and made the deal too salty to take.
Met Mr Mintoff a couple of times and he was nothing like he is portrayed in print.
Fair point, I was trying to keep it brief though - saving my fingers for my coninuation rant :razz:
 
#14
What does Malta have to do with it? Malta wanted independence. Gibraltar and the Falklands want to keep their ties firmly with the UK. Even if they don't get a seat in Parliament, which I'm not even sure the want anyway, they are unlikely to stick up two fingers and decide their future is better independent.

Why make 'solutions' to problems that don't actually exist? Oh yes, publicity, that's why.
 
#15
What does Malta have to do with it? Malta wanted independence. Gibraltar and the Falklands want to keep their ties firmly with the UK. Even if they don't get a seat in Parliament, which I'm not even sure the want anyway, they are unlikely to stick up two fingers and decide their future is better independent.

Why make 'solutions' to problems that don't actually exist? Oh yes, publicity, that's why.
There is a constitutional lacuna in that we can force our overseas territories to abide by treaties (such as the European Convention on Human Rights and the Treaty of Rome) over which they have absolutely no say.

I am not saying force them to send MPs to Westminster but I would like for them to be given the option. The French have made their federalised overseas territories work well.
 
#16
" The French have made their federalised overseas territories work well. "
Hmmm.
The French have also apparently made other things work well (for themselves) that we do not, like treaties quoted earlier such as the European Convention on Human Rights and the Treaty of Rome.
Deportation of foreigners that are threats to (French) public safety, crims that have finished their porridge also seem to work well.
Yes, I think two additional Right Honourable Gentlemen would fit in well, especially when considering their exxies claims......
 
#17
It's a bit rum that our OSTs aren't represented. Gib and the Cyprus Crown Territories could have an MP. Falklands, St Helena, Ascension (some people live there...) and Tristan Da Cunha could be an Atlantic constituency with an MP. The Caribbean territories could be another (Virgin Islands , Turks and Caicos etc).

They're a loyal bunch. They could do with proper representation and it would make everything more equitable.

Pitcairn is populated by about 15 paedos, so they don't need an MP.


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#18
It would be a BIG step change. Workable in theory and I do like it. I cannot see the establishment ever abandoning the current Westminster arrangment. A little over 200 years ago Britain decided it would rather lose the Americas than undergo any kind of constitutional evolution. Very little has changed. We might well lose the Scots in much the same way we lost the Yanks.[/QUOTE]

Would we lose the Scots, or give them the slip?
 
#19
I thought it was us that turned them down, rather than the other way around.



I have long toyed with that idea too (a fully federalised United Kingdom).

It makes so much sense but it would mean abolishing my beloved House of Lords as it now exists, one of the few good things left in British politics.

Also on a practical level you cannot have devolved heads of government vetoing federal laws. Presumably the Lords would have to act as a unicameral federal Parliament, in which case the PM of the UK would have to sit in the Lords.

It would be a BIG step change. Workable in theory and I do like it. I cannot see the establishment ever abandoning the current Westminster arrangment. A little over 200 years ago Britain decided it would rather lose the Americas than undergo any kind of constitutional evolution. Very little has changed. We might well lose the Scots in much the same way we lost the Yanks.
Do you like the House of Lords as they are old with nothing to lose by voting common sense? (My View)
Also it is worth mentioning that Malta has a branch of West Brom Supporters club there a Mr Vassalo
 
#20
Do you like the House of Lords as they are old with nothing to lose by voting common sense? (My View)
It is an institution that could never be designed. It has evolved over hundreds of years. The quality of debate is extremely high and they tend to apply reason to the problem at hand. Two qualities notably devoid in the Commons.
 

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