Selling points for students

#1
This from today's Times. I think the TA is ideally placed to rectify these isses:

Managers cite a series of shortcomings in potential recruits. These include:

# Too much time spent working on degrees and not enough joining clubs and societies, where students might work in teams.

# Not enough experience of giving presentations in tutorials, leaving new graduates unable to communicate ideas in the work place.

# Poor spelling, grammar and mathematical ability mean that graduates are making basic mistakes, writing illiterate memos and are in need of constant supervision.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2028167,00.html

msr
 
#2
One thing with the TA is that new guys don't tend to give a lot of presentations/write memos, etc. Could you imagine having to change the training plan to allow all the new guys time to do this?

Surely UOTCs would be better placed to do this?
 
#3
This is an opportunity which the military should capitalise upon.

Perhaps the key here is to engage the firms who are trying to recruit from this semi literate pool. Clearly these students have something to offer and need ''rounding off' by, say, the TA (too late for the UOTC by the time they graduate!). By getting the firms on board in the first place and opening up the communication channels between them and the TA there will be sizeable mutual benefits. Raw material benefits and hey - they may even get to love doing their bit. And when the time comes for the soldier / officer to deploy, there's a good chance that the firm will enable the process.
 
#5
I'm not too sure how SaBRE functions, but other posts have given me the impression that they are too employer-centric and the TA bod feels slightly disenfranchised by them. I may be wrong, but that's what I read. This surely is an opportunity for a little bit of strategic direction, then a lot of local / brigade-regional follow up?
 
#6
Sn,

You would like to think so, wouldn't you...

msr
 
#7
Storeman Norman said:
too late for the UOTC by the time they graduate!
I take your point if they are already out of University, but can the TA address these issues in the short-term? Would it be worth the UOTCs making this point known at the Freshers weeks and recruiting events?

It'd take a while to address these issues and three+ years at Uni would be the perfect time for this.
 
#8
StabTiffy is right.

The OTCs do presentation skills and lecturettes as a matter of course in MTQ1 and 2 which back in the day had an NVQ or something in Leadership and Management level 3 or some such. DITs courses are also offered for the next generation of instructors.

Unless you want them all to go the TASO, PO or DETAPO route the TA as a private soldier offers precious few opportunities to practice those skills being sought after by employers.

So are you looking for soldiers to bump the numbers up or officers who will be around for two years (at least) after completing officer training.

Ocdts are on about 40 quid a day but have a rubbish bounty. 170 I think

Ptes have poor pay but a better bounty and more opportunities for courses which would be the biggest selling point the big one being driving quals.

But is this the selling point to employers to get back on track?
 
#9
The OTC clearly has a part in the process but the point is surely that those who want to join the UOTC will do so. Our problem starts when these hairy, smelly types pitch up at Bloggs & Bloggs clutching their 2:1 and expecting 23 grand on the spot when the only teamwork skills they have encountered in their formative years was down at AFC Neasden on a cold Saturday afternoon. It would be a challenge for the TA to develop the three Rs - but they could do a lot about other communication skills / fitness / teamwork etc even at soldier level. That said, if the benefits of doing so were significant, why couldn't the TA introduce Comms Skills class work for soldiers? They do in the regular army.
 
#10
THE OTCs are massively over subscribed and the TA is under-recruited.

So why not use an allocation of MTDs for basic skills development?

Have a look here at the free (non-mil) courses available to TA soldiers: http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Retention_Ideas

msr
 
#11
msr. Check your pms and be encouraged!
 
#12
Selling point, hands on experience of the theory subjects they study,

Royal Signals, =>IT, Coms Electricians
Royal Engineers => any construction trade, Engineers
Sports Science => PTI
Event Management => Logistics
Business Finance => AGC

How many employers complain that they don’t get enough experience coming though the doors.

Students can better themselves by studying the online courses ie IT=> Signals => online Microsoft courses.

Target specific courses with specific roles, where they fit in.
 
#13
OK, so I admit that there is a potential for the TA to address these skills gaps (and aid harmonisation between Regs/TA) but where to stop?

Would it be mandatry for all new recruits? One of the advantages of the TA is that you don't get treated like a child joining the Regs.

If it is optional would the person studying for a degree:
A) admit they need to have these lessons?
B) Want to sit in a class with the thick bloke that failed every GCSE on the planet?

Training Plans are already stretched and filled with (in the opinions of some) crap which is un-necessary to the majority. Should we really dilute it more and risk making the TAFs, CMSR, Top Ups even longer?

Any comments in this post are not meant to be derogatory, but used to illustrate a point.
 
#14
crazyfool said:
Students can better themselves by studying the online courses ie IT=> Signals => online Microsoft courses.
The DELC courses are free to all TA personnel and include both IT and other subjects.

ST2B, what do you think a DITS course is, if not a presentational techniques course?

msr
 
#15
StabTiffy2B said:
Would it be mandatry for all new recruits? One of the advantages of the TA is that you don't get treated like a child joining the Regs.

Training Plans are already stretched and filled with (in the opinions of some) crap which is un-necessary to the majority. Should we really dilute it more and risk making the TAFs, CMSR, Top Ups even longer?
Your points are all valid ST2B. However, what we're talking about here is tailoring 'the offer' to these people so that it meets both their needs and the needs of their employer. So, Firm A has an understanding with their local TA unit that they will encourage their newly recruited raw material to join and local unit then constructs a regime which meets the requirements of both the TA and the local business community. Two birds with one stone and as long as it's constructively and efficiently done then all should gain. The next problem is then to work on the spin offs resulting from this 'successful' realtionship.
 
#16
You don't need to change anything, just highlight the relevant part of TA training to both potential recruits and employers - then ensure the soldiers get that training. It really isn't hard.

msr
 
#17
msr said:
You don't need to change anything, just highlight the relevant part of TA training to both potential recruits and employers - then ensure the soldiers get that training. It really isn't hard.

msr
But which parts are they? I haven't had any training in literacy or maths in my (reasonably) limited TA Career.

msr said:
# Not enough experience of giving presentations in tutorials, leaving new graduates unable to communicate ideas in the work place.
But how long will the process take. Most new recruits won't advance to this stage for at least a couple of years. It needs to be addressed far earlier in their careers (ie when they're still at uni)

msr said:
# Poor spelling, grammar and mathematical ability mean that graduates are making basic mistakes, writing illiterate memos and are in need of constant supervision.
It's not as if our seniors/some officers are above this. I've openly laughed at the standard of some things I see getting produced.
 
#18
msr said:
THE OTCs are massively over subscribed and the TA is under-recruited.

So why not use an allocation of MTDs for basic skills development?

Have a look here at the free (non-mil) courses available to TA soldiers: http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Retention_Ideas

msr
Here's a thought - have a TA unit with a Company at a UOTC location.

The UOTC bods take it in turn to be in command of the platoon (pretty much like they do as now), with a TA Company Commander.

UOTC should be fully funded - it might be a drinking club for three/four years, but when they go into industry, if they've had a good experience they're more likely to be sympathetic to the plight of their staff who are also in the TA.
 
#19
StabTiffy2B said:
msr said:
# Poor spelling, grammar and mathematical ability mean that graduates are making basic mistakes, writing illiterate memos and are in need of constant supervision.
It's not as if our seniors/some officers are above this. I've openly laughed at the standard of some things I see getting produced.
Will you stop being so negative? Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

msr
 
#20
Mr_Relaxed said:
UOTC should be fully funded - it might be a drinking club for three/four years, but when they go into industry, if they've had a good experience they're more likely to be sympathetic to the plight of their staff who are also in the TA.
This often gets bandied about and every time I ask for proof, no-one is able to actually show me any stats to back this up. Can you?

msr
 

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