Segregated Messes in the ACF

#1
Having come into the ACF 18 months ago as an adult I'm findng it difficult to appreciate the need for segregated messes between 'Sergeant' and 'Officer' type youth workers.
Given the need to communicate effectively about the business of youth work this barrier would seem to be an unnessary obstacle.
Mimicking the actual army a bit too far.
If any one can give a valid reason for this I'd like to know.
 
#2
Tend to agree with you. Depends whether you regard yourselves as "youth workers" or members of the Armed Forces. If the former then segregation is probably unnecessary - if the latter then get used to it.
 
#3
seanbean said:
Tend to agree with you. Depends whether you regard yourselves as "youth workers" or members of the Armed Forces. If the former then segregation is probably unnecessary - if the latter then get used to it.
I should probably add I've no problem playing along, and uphold the military side as the reason I'm there and the kids are there, after all its why we're in the ACF rather than the scouts.
 
#4
No problems there. As long as you know which side of the fence you are on. Basically you guys do a good job - a public service even. What is guaranteed to get up our nose is an ACF instructor who somehow imagines he equates to his Regular counterpart.
 
#5
seanbean said:
No problems there. As long as you know which side of the fence you are on. Basically you guys do a good job - a public service even. What is guaranteed to get up our nose is an ACF instructor who somehow imagines he equates to his Regular counterpart.
100% on that one mate and cheers for the nice thought. As an ex-TA bod I can say its never entered my head I'm anything other than a youth worker in an army sponsored organisation. Your soldiers, we're not, big difference.
 
#6
between adults it informal within ACF and between Army bods, however in FRONT of Cadets , we play the game saluting, Addressing by ranks, followed by Sir/ma'am as appropriate.

as to relations with the Army common courtesy goes a long way and believe you me some of the Army bods would love to show Cadets what they do and brings the big toys along if they can, for a little show and tell.
 
#8
nastyberganchafe said:
Having come into the ACF 18 months ago as an adult I'm findng it difficult to appreciate the need for segregated messes between 'Sergeant' and 'Officer' type youth workers.
Given the need to communicate effectively about the business of youth work this barrier would seem to be an unnessary obstacle.
Mimicking the actual army a bit too far.
If any one can give a valid reason for this I'd like to know.
NBC,

Although I am rapidly losing my few remaining memory cells I seem to recall that in the 80's, certainly amongst Avon and Glos ACF HQ and dets, that messes were mixed in normal locations. Whilst on annual camp they definitely were. Worked very well and didn't undermine normal military courtesies and practice.

PAW
 
#9
In YACF, messes are mixed on weekend camps, it's only on annual camp that there are seperate messes.

I guess the main reason for this (aside from military niceties) is that camps are built for a regular army set up and neither building that is designated a 'mess' would be big enough to hold all of us.

I do find that seperate messes do get in the way of communication though.
 
#11
I AM A REG WHO WORKS WITH ACF..IT PPISSES ME OFF THAT THEY HAVE SEPERATE MESSES.......WHY?

a) THEY ARE A YOUTH ORGANISIATION

b) WOULD BE NICE TO SOCIALISE WITH THE PEOPLE I DEAL WITH FOR MANY MONTHS, ON THE BUILD UP TO THERE ANNUAL CAMPS

c)...................................
 
#13
My ACF has a combined mess, I agree with Semper. Formal in front of kids ranks etc. informal in the mess, however some do think its real soldiers and want to play mess rules. We are a voluntary organisation and shouldn't take things to seriously. Thats my view anyway
 
#14
Harry Paget Flashman said:
I do find that seperate messes do get in the way of communication though.
Thoroughly agree with you HPF, one year I was the only officer in charge of a cadre the others, were SSI/SMI`s, how annoying that I had to have my training / testing debriefings either in the Coy office, which then made it formal because HQ staff were about, or elsewhere, combined messes would work if a level playing field was set, and would certainly make C3I easier.
 
#15
In Hants and IOW it is what does appear to be the norm. Combined mess for company/training weekends with seperate messes when on annual, although the officers are invited to the WO's and Sgt's mess on one of the evenings for socialising.
 
#16
over_and_out said:
although the officers are invited to the WO's and Sgt's mess on one of the evenings for socialising.
Dont start me on this one, ooh go on then, last year annual camp, came back from local town, after our Coy night out, three of us junior officers got asked back to the Sgts mess, which was quite quiet for a change, the RSM firmly told my 2ic no officers, its too late, notice or time never found that out!

The same RSM then was invited to our Mess for the Hon. Col dine out, and proceeds to stay to around 2am, now i thought decourum would have been to stay for a couple of hours, thank the mess for the invite and then bid your goodbyes and go! No this bloke swaned around like it was his mess, and other officers were leaving to turn in before him!! Bloody cheek!
 
#17
Harry Paget Flashman said:
In YACF, messes are mixed on weekend camps, it's only on annual camp that there are seperate messes.

I guess the main reason for this (aside from military niceties) is that camps are built for a regular army set up and neither building that is designated a 'mess' would be big enough to hold all of us.

I do find that seperate messes do get in the way of communication though.
All the more reason to have separate messes, time out etc, without having to go and discuss plan something with someone who would like to take a bit of time out with a pint or two...
 
#18
We have separate messes and I have to say I actually enjoy it, we have very different types of people as you would expect, but the sgts mess is the lively one!! I think it would be nice to have a joint mess, but only 1 camp i have been on would have been big enough to hold everyone!! SMP in particular is very small!! I love our mess and while yes it may be practical to have a combined mess, i'm not sure I would want it!!

Are all ACF mess rules strict?? Dress codes etc?? The last thing most people want to do after a hard day training is get suited and booted to go for a quick drink surely??

The thing that gets me is the sleeping accomodation, our officers are accomodated separately which is fine, however on a weekend camp this often means 3 female sgts being in one block and the 1 female officer being in another. It is not by choice of the officer, as she has often commented on the situation and wants to be allowed with the sgts.
 
#19
clanker said:
over_and_out said:
although the officers are invited to the WO's and Sgt's mess on one of the evenings for socialising.
Dont start me on this one, ooh go on then, last year annual camp, came back from local town, after our Coy night out, three of us junior officers got asked back to the Sgts mess, which was quite quiet for a change, the RSM firmly told my 2ic no officers, its too late, notice or time never found that out!

The same RSM then was invited to our Mess for the Hon. Col dine out, and proceeds to stay to around 2am, now i thought decourum would have been to stay for a couple of hours, thank the mess for the invite and then bid your goodbyes and go! No this bloke swaned around like it was his mess, and other officers were leaving to turn in before him!! Bloody cheek!
Clanker,

It's quite simple really. The RSM has a degree of standing and authority. You, as junior officers, have very little.

PAW
 
#20
My area has seperate messes and neither ranks are allowed to enter each others mess.
I understand the difference of opinion and we have in the past had to join up on camp but there would always be a divide, it works ok as im sure the officers would not approve of some of the antics in the sgt mess and vice versa.
Also in order to enter the mess NCOs and officers alike must dress with jacket and tie or no entry allowed. For the Sgts mess the dress code is at the descretion of the RSM but he rarely changes it, only if its barsteward hot!



troop
 

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