Section in Attack Assessment

#21
bren_gunner said:
Hi, have my section in attack assessment week on next week, just looking for any advice that people here might have so that i can lead the best sia, im new to sia and now have to complete the assessment so any advice people who have vast experience here could give me would be greatly appreciated for the ic and 2ic role.

Regards

Bren_Gunner
Firstly, apologies for my rather flippant reply to your original post, all that I can say is that drink was a factor! I suspect your're in the FCA (no offence! ) as I was myself in the early '70's and and well done you for having the stones to pop up here and ask advice from the acknowledged masters of the subject! Lots of really good sound advice so far and you will ignore it at your peril! All I can say is this, make sure your boys really understand FCO's otherwise you may as well be singing the overture from La Traviata, all you'll get is blank looks and a recipe for disaster. Secondly, practice the simple stuff until you're blue in the face. By this I mean taking the time to walk your section through all of the component parts of the SIA and explaining in detail what is actually going on at each stage, Reaction to Effective Enemy Fire, Taking and Breaking Cover, Peeling off, Actions in the FAP, Fighting Through and the Reorg. Honestly, this really is time well spent and the slower and more detailed the better. Once your troops have got this bit of software installed you can then run it through in faster time until it's second nature. The fact is, unless your boys understand thoroughly what they're supposed to be doing at every stage then it doesn't matter how good you are on the day, it will be a shambles. On the other hand if you have an off day and they do as they've been taught then you will often get away with it!
Good luck, and An Piarsach Abu!! :highfive:
 
#22
The_Cheat said:
angular said:
I wouldn't get too excited about deceptive smoke at section level, and if it's going to cause confusion, only use it to mask your movement or there's no cover near the objective.
What's this? How does this work, do you lob a smoke pot the other way, and when the En is looking at all the nice Blue smoke you sneak up on them?

T C
That's exactly what I thought he meant!

Jaeger's point about rehearsals is critical. You can do this in a car park, so when you say, 'Go left flanking', your boys know who's going where, automatically.
A final point from me, remember that where our drills differ from the Irish version, stick with the Irish version for the avoidance of confusion and the benefit of the DS. I came back from a stay with the US National Guard, full of great ideas of how they did their ops planning. I then tried to use that in the next Bn ex, and caused all kinds of confusion and b0llockings. Other people's methods give you a wider perspective, but they aren't an instant solution to your problem.
 
#23
Don't be scared to back off a little and spend a minute looking at the ground.

We had the "Condor moment" hammered in to us on my PJNCO, just don't take all fecking day.
 
#24
bobath said:
Don't be scared to back off a little and spend a minute looking at the ground.

We had the "Condor moment" hammered in to us on my PJNCO, just don't take all fecking day.
Part of the Reaction to effective enemy fire - Return rounds (in the general direction) take cover, Return fire into likely enemy positions (if you haven't located them straight away) - send initial contact report - then get your arrse out of the enemys killing area.

Then when you have located the enemy and are supressing them hand over the fire fight to the 2ic and take said condor moment while weighing up your options on what to do next.
 
#25
coax-on said:
bobath said:
Don't be scared to back off a little and spend a minute looking at the ground.

We had the "Condor moment" hammered in to us on my PJNCO, just don't take all fecking day.
Part of the Reaction to effective enemy fire - Return rounds (in the general direction) take cover, Return fire into likely enemy positions (if you haven't located them straight away) - send initial contact report - then get your arrse out of the enemys killing area.

Then when you have located the enemy and are supressing them hand over the fire fight to the 2ic and take said condor moment while weighing up your options on what to do next.
How many times have you seen some keen young thruster just take a quick look and go dashing off in to the woods for a left flanking with out thinking about, or looking at the tarrain?

Everyone does it at first, with the DS shouting "Time means rounds gentlemen, and you quickly running out of both."
 
#26
bobath said:
coax-on said:
bobath said:
Don't be scared to back off a little and spend a minute looking at the ground.

We had the "Condor moment" hammered in to us on my PJNCO, just don't take all fecking day.
Part of the Reaction to effective enemy fire - Return rounds (in the general direction) take cover, Return fire into likely enemy positions (if you haven't located them straight away) - send initial contact report - then get your arrse out of the enemys killing area.

Then when you have located the enemy and are supressing them hand over the fire fight to the 2ic and take said condor moment while weighing up your options on what to do next.
How many times have you seen some keen young thruster just take a quick look and go dashing off in to the woods for a left flanking with out thinking about, or looking at the tarrain?

Everyone does it at first, with the DS shouting "Time means rounds gentlemen, and you quickly running out of both."
Yes - Good God I haven't heard that for so long now......and the PREPARETOMOVEMOVE!!!! without giving them long enough to check pouches ect
 
#27
We had it in a very angre Scotish accent, I'd never heard any say Gentlemen and make it sound like such an insult before.
 
#28
The good'ol sayings of the DS.

"No movement without fire, no fire without movement"
"Time is ammo"
"An apple a day keeps the doctor away":)

Try doing a section attack in Gibraltar where everything is uphill and there is no bullet proof cover and the only cam you have is those bloody thorns that stab you everywhere.

Gibboe:)
 
#29
Like Jaeger says, brief and practice the lads first, who does what with whom-vital.
initial contact, 2IC control the firefight while you get a good look and time to make a decision, but not too long.
fast on final assault- split into pairs and fast but slick re-org is always impressive.
And best of luck.

on the final assault if you split into pairs should section I/C lead final kill - for leadership - or designate other pair whilst he covers just in case it goes wrong then A) he can continue to control as 2I/C is at a distance, B) try again.

any comments
 
#30
- Keep section commanders orders short & too the point (not too complicated)

- Your FCO MUST be spot on! everyone must know where they enemy

- On the recce go as far as you can to left & right

- Check FSG in good position

- Make sure FSG can hear FRAGO

- Call manoevure group to you, don't go to them

- Remember "prepare to move"

- Lots of aggression & speed up the flank, shout encourage, if in doubt use smoke and F&M up the flank, whatever way you have been taught

- Beware of "commanders legs" don't be the only one at the FAL

- Place the POF & FS on the move, point and shout on the move

- Check you know where the enemy at the FAL

- Remember to do lift & shift!!

- Do the correct drill for the assault

- Shout lots of encouragement to the rest of the section in the reorg. "Get the f*** up here"

- Place the section as they come in - shout & point

- Remember to get someone to search the enemy

- It depends on the cover available as to where the Reorg posn is. Depending on the ground it may be less confusing for all to us the enemy position
 
#31
Dwarf said:
on the final assault if you split into pairs should section I/C lead final kill - for leadership - or designate other pair whilst he covers just in case it goes wrong then A) he can continue to control as 2I/C is at a distance, B) try again.

any comments
I'd say judgement call based on terrain and incoming fire. If the objective (and any identified depth) are adequately suppressed, getting up there yourself means you're more likely to get a view of the ground plus of the objective. You can look for likely depth and routes for the rest of the platoon to take. If there's a chance the enemy think they're bulletproof, it shouldn't be you who has to prove them wrong, that's what Toms are for.

If it's a trench system, deffo send in the guineapigs to clear the first bay and attract any bullets.

In any eventuality, get up there asap as soon as you hear "Trench clear". You need to establish control and set about defending the place.

FSG rejoining - proven ground or fastest route? Depends on mine threat and incoming fire - another judgement call on the day.

Remember, your personal weapon is now your section, not your rifle.
 
#32
The some parts of the drills for section in attack constantly change depending on the unit SOPs & experience for courses/overseas.
 
#33
Ensure you switch to full automatic for the final kill, grenade posted and straight in with full auto, both of you, your mucker gets a stoppage you're ready to give the enemy the good news.
 
#34
All the advice I've read here's been excellent. Did my JNCO promo cadre back in the Dark Ages (10-man sections, SLRs, Jimpy's) - but the basic rules remain. GRIT & CLAP will never fail you. FCOs - do they still use the clock-ray method? It was always useful on flat, featureless terrain. If you can get them at least looking in the right direction, you've made a start. Oh, and if you're gonna prop in the captured position - make sure you watch your 3200 (180, or whatever). The COD drill is vital - I got popped by an unchecked "opposition dead" after leading a copybook assault. (Didn't hafta do much other than a lotta yelling - the guys I was with were v.professional.)
Cheers,
Cliff.
 
#35
Never understood how the infantry managed to need 7 battle drills for a section attack and only 4 for a platoon attack. Still doesn't make sense. :(

One critical thing from the DS POV is your appreciation of the ground. From that you need to choose to mount a left or right flanking assault. Choosing which one is a good start.

Secondly; the Fight Through followed by Reorganisation is really important because that is the meat of your attack. Command and control is critical. Good luck anyway.
 
#36
Not much that can be added to what is here already,good solid advice all round.One thing I would suggest is making sure your lads make a show of actually physically checking themselv's for wounds on the re-org.DS just lluurrve that.
 
#37
bren_gunner said:
Hi, have my section in attack assessment week on next week, just looking for any advice that people here might have so that i can lead the best sia, im new to sia and now have to complete the assessment so any advice people who have vast experience here could give me would be greatly appreciated for the ic and 2ic role.

Regards

Bren_Gunner
Some good advice,

When Sect Comd, stay calm, and remember your section battle drills.

Give clear fire control orders, and then hand fire control over to your 2IC when practicle, and take time to quickly plan.

Someone said (big word) use of Bino's (no joke) take the time to observe enemy locations (and be seen to observe) observe routes long left short left etc.. good use of ground is always a winner (why expose yourself when you can crawl up dead ground)

take a condor and call in your 2IC. Brief him up, and all should go well.

when 2IC, just remember Admin, and support to the sect Comd (he will flap, if you can give steady advice, or take over fire cntrol quickly you will be on to a winner.

and Admin on the reorg.

waffle done,

good luck
 
#38
duffdike said:
Never understood how the infantry managed to need 7 battle drills for a section attack and only 4 for a platoon attack. Still doesn't make sense. :(

One critical thing from the DS POV is your appreciation of the ground. From that you need to choose to mount a left or right flanking assault. Choosing which one is a good start.

Secondly; the Fight Through followed by Reorganisation is really important because that is the meat of your attack. Command and control is critical. Good luck anyway.
Because the Section battle drills are an integral part of the Platoon battle drills. After all a platoon attack is just a series of section attacks - Suppress - Assault - Reserve - Suppress - Assault - Reserve and so on until the posn is clear.
 
#39
PS. Don't forget to stick some foliage under your trouser-bottoms, back in the Eighties it was all there was between us and 3 Shock Army!
In your puttees, dyed black of course. :wink:
 
#40
reherse the basic drills with your section, and as a commander remember that you wouldn't have a DS beside you if it is a two way range. Understand the basic methodology beside the whole section level assault and take your time if it's your first time. Mistakes you make will be discussed in your debrief. Make sure you listen and learn. Only with experience as a commander, and with an experienced/well drilled section can you expect to have everything off to a tee ;)

You will hear a lot about speed and agression, but this will only work when the things above are sorted. An aggressive and quick bag of shite assault as a first attempt means you learn nothing. Slower pace, and thinking while controlling your lads is were you will learn from the experience.

Best of luck mate.
 

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