Secret Sniper School in Iraq ?

#1
Another possibility is that the training is done outside Iraq and then the new snipers are infiltrated back into Iraq.

www.strategypage.com

June 8, 2005: American troops in Iraq suspect that there’s an enemy sniper school somewhere in the country. More and more, Iraqi and coalition troops are encountering snipers. There have always been a few hostile snipers around, and many more Iraqis with sniper rifles, and no sniper skills. Those snipers apparently got their training in elite units of Saddams armed forces, units that recruited only Sunni Arabs who were very loyal to the idea that Iraq should be run by Sunni Arabs. Most of these snipers have a short life expectancy once they get into action, but they account for a disproportionate number of American and Iraqi troops killed or wounded by gunfire. Most hostile Iraqis have marksmanship skills of the “spray and pray” variety. That means, getting hit by one of these guys is a chance event. However, American troops believe they are encountering more and more trained snipers. But if someone is training snipers, then the sniper school, and its instructors, have become a prime target for American and Iraqi troops now scouring western Iraq for enemy bases.

Training snipers involves more than marksmanship training. Equally important is learning how to get into a favorable position to make an effective shot, and then get away for fight another day. To date, most Iraqi snipers are quickly located, trapped and killed. But more and more, they are showing the concealment, and escape, skills of a trained professional.
 
#2
Perhaps there are also a large number of snipers who have had no formal training? Opportunists?
 
#3
evoloution in action those that spray and pray die .Those who think about
what there doing get to do it again .Its not rocket science is it?
 
#4
The opportunists are killed in relative short order. The pro's are alot more dangerous. Counter sniper teams may have to slip into areas plagued with snipers to deal with these guys one on one.
 
#5
tomahawk6 said:
The opportunists are killed in relative short order. The pro's are alot more dangerous. Counter sniper teams may have to slip into areas plagued with snipers to deal with these guys one on one.
No they aren't. The oportunists are if anything just as deadly and often just as hard to find - particularly in a country like Iraq where ther are so many guns kicking about. It's easy for them to blend in with a crowd. a bullet still kills.

I think there are a lot of very succesfull snipers who have had no formal training/sniper schooling. Bosnia is a prime example. Local people who know the ground can make things difficult for trained soldiers if they choose to.
 
#6
Depends what we call a sniper. Bloke in funny suit etc. In countries where firearms are a constant companions, many locals become VERY good shots. The other skills - concealment and target id etc. - of a Otterburn 'unter are largely superflous in a built up area. Maybe the septics don't know difference between 'sniper' and 'excellent shot'?
 
#7
Always willing to take pointers from our cousins. The constant jibes by our Brit friends wears a bit thin. Its like the construction worker on a project and he has some spectator giving him advice on how to do the job.
 

napier

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#8
I hardly think you can refer to ARRSErs as spectators, as many of us have assisted your compatriots with George W's bid for world domination. And you don't need to be a trained sniper to have a good chance of a single shot hit with high probability of incapacitation > 600m with a Dragunov SVD, of which there are plenty floating about for the keen amateur plinker.
 
#9
I think the secret sniper school will turn out to be an urban myth
like the one about the yank mercenary sniper in northern ireland
 
#10
tomahawk6 said:
Always willing to take pointers from our cousins. The constant jibes by our Brit friends wears a bit thin. Its like the construction worker on a project and he has some spectator giving him advice on how to do the job.
But the spectator has built this sort of project before, and as he can't remember the last time the construction worker (supposedly a 'professional') built any project without failure, he feels he has a right to give him advice.

This is fun. :roll:
 
#11
spank_the_monkey said:
tomahawk6 said:
Always willing to take pointers from our cousins. The constant jibes by our Brit friends wears a bit thin. Its like the construction worker on a project and he has some spectator giving him advice on how to do the job.
But the spectator has built this sort of project before, and as he can't remember the last time the construction worker (supposedly a 'professional') built any project without failure, he feels he has a right to give him advice.

This is fun. :roll:
No it's not. Stop fcuking about, if you want to start a personal slanging match, take it to chat or FO to the NAAFI with it. Clear enough?
 
#12
Maybe the word "sniper" is the wrong word to use.

An AK47 isn't a sniper wpn.

Someone shooting from 100, 200, 300 yds isn't always a sniper.

Maybe the terrorists in Iraq have realised that 1 aimed shot causes as much trouble as 30 spray & pray.
 
#14
dogmonkey said:
No it's not.
I didn't remember asking a question, do you?

Wind you neck in, last time i checked we could still have a little bit of banter, or is that out of the window too? Full points for punctuality though; you’re on the ball and no mistake!

dogmonkey said:
Clear enough?
Your the boss.
 
#15
spank_the_monkey said:
dogmonkey said:
No it's not.
I didn't remember asking a question, do you?

Wind you neck in, last time i checked we could still have a little bit of banter, or is that out of the window too? Full points for punctuality though; you’re on the ball and no mistake!

dogmonkey said:
Clear enough?
Your the boss.
That's right. And this isn't a democracy!

Bone posting (as the recent survey suggests) p!sses people off, so don't do it (anyone) unless you wish to see posts removed.

There are places where you can chops off inanely (this is what I understand by your description of 'banter') but this forum is not the place to do it.
 
#16
Tom ,

Remember we have quite a few trained snipers looking in on the thread, and you may expect commentary on whether or not such a school exists.

Personally, if I was the guy in charge, I'd be looking to interview all the guys we trained way back during the Iran-Iraq unpleasantness, and wondering if they've started their own cadres.

Regards

PTP
 

Auld-Yin

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#17
Back to snipers- a definition of what a sniper is/does is needed here.

I bet that anyone out there will not give a flying fart if it is a deliberate's or opportunist's slinging rounds in their direction (although the deliberate may be more predictable and thus able to take out)
 
#18
Heywood_Jablowme said:
Go to your naffi post, I want to slag you off.
 
#20
I am reminded of the reports from Normandy in 1944 where every bush hid a "sniper". What they actually hid was a well trained and motivated SS trooper with a rifle. If a few insurgents are taking the time to apply marksmanship principles while their compatriots spray the air with their AK-47s it doesn't necessarily mean they've graduated from some scary secret training facility.

After all, it was only a century or so ago that every single rifleman in the British Army trained on 1000 yard ranges and was expected to hit things at the end. As the short ranges seen in Iraq that skill translates to hitting those bits of the soldier not behind a helmet and SAPI plates. Iraq has always been a society awash with guns and it's not surprising that some get good with them - much like the tales of good ole boys from the mountains used to shooting game joining the US Army and excelling at marksmanship. Plus all the live fire practice they got during the Iran/Iraq war.

The following link was apparently taken from a website and translated.
www.d-n-i.net/fcs/ppt/iraqi_insurgent_sniper_training.ppt

What we see could just as well be explained by the Darwinian forces of combat and judicious use of the information sharing networks our foes excel at.
 

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