Second Iranian nuclear facility declared

#1
News item
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8274262.stm

A case of, 'Oh, we found this down the back of the sofa*, so we thought we should tell you. Do you know, we completely forgot we had this... '

You would almost think they were trying to build an atom bomb on the quiet, or something silly like that.



* Actually, 'Inside a hollowed out mountain, near one of our main cities. Now how on earth did that get there? '
 
#2
Obama is going to make a speech around 13.30
 
#3
Taffnp said:
Obama is going to make a speech around 13.30
'December deadline for full cooperation - then sanctions.' Sarcozy

Merkel had something more important to do... :roll:
 
#6
There is only one sensible and rational response to such an outrageous escalation, - we must abandon a quarter of our capability at the first possible sign of an election.
 
#7
Tougher sanctions :roll: what will they be then ?
 
#8
It looks as the Iranians don't violate any agreements.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8274903.stm

"This installation is not a secret one, which is why we announced its existence to the IAEA [International Atomic Energy Agency]," Ali Akbar Saleri, head of Iran's nuclear agency, told the AFP news agency.

Iran says it does not need to inform the IAEA of any new site until 180 days before any nuclear material is place in the facility.
There is a big fuss around the plant but...

Reports that Western officials have known of the existence of the enrichment plant for several months suggest that Mr Obama's policy was put in place even as he was aware of the new construction near Qom, correspondents note.
One could ask, why the plant was not mentioned by Western politicians before?
Was the CIA aware about the plant before?

Likely no.
 
#9
KGB_resident said:
It looks as the Iranians don't violate any agreements.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8274903.stm

"This installation is not a secret one, which is why we announced its existence to the IAEA [International Atomic Energy Agency]," Ali Akbar Saleri, head of Iran's nuclear agency, told the AFP news agency.

Iran says it does not need to inform the IAEA of any new site until 180 days before any nuclear material is place in the facility.
There is a big fuss around the plant but...

Reports that Western officials have known of the existence of the enrichment plant for several months suggest that Mr Obama's policy was put in place even as he was aware of the new construction near Qom, correspondents note.
One could ask, why the plant was not mentioned by Western politicians before?
Was the CIA aware about the plant before?

Likely no.
Sergey,
By the same criteria-Were the FSB? Answer-Likely no?
The Iranians do have previous for this sort of non-declaration, and building a Mk 1 James Bond Villain Secret Base (TM) inside a mountain doesn't add to people's belief in their good intentions.
Is this sort of naughtiness (and the mysterious case of the MV Arctic Sea) why your government is starting to make noise about sanctions?
 
#10
Yeah, right, and the Israeli nuclear weapon plants are surrounded by big flashing neon lights inviting journalists to come in and have a look around.

Same old double standards Western hypocrisy.

Same old failure to mention the only existing nuclear power in the Middle East.

Same old failure to suggest any kinds of sanctions against Israel for its nuclear program and its 'too numerous to mention war' crimes.

Same old 'US President goes to water when told what to do by Jerusalem' routine.

Same old lack of justification for starting yet another totally stupid war against the Muslims.

Same old madness by the West in driving Iran into China's sphere of influence.

Same old, same old.
 
#11
littlejim said:
Yeah, right, and the Israeli nuclear weapon plants are surrounded by big flashing neon lights inviting journalists to come in and have a look around.

Same old double standards Western hypocrisy.

Same old failure to mention the only existing nuclear power in the Middle East.

Same old failure to suggest any kinds of sanctions against Israel for its nuclear program and its 'too numerous to mention war' crimes.

Same old 'US President goes to water when told what to do by Jerusalem' routine.

Same old lack of justification for starting yet another totally stupid war against the Muslims.

Same old madness by the West in driving Iran into China's sphere of influence.

Same old, same old.
LittleJim;
I can see that you feel strongly about this, but there is one huge difference. Israel isn't a Non Proliferation Treaty signatory. As such, LEGALLY it can issue a personal tactical nuke to every Rabbi on its pre 1948 territory (also recognised by the UN), and the world can't do much more then send them a snotty letter.
Iran DID sign, and has been caught, repeatedly, in breach of an agreement it went into willingly. It hasn't withdrawn, so must be held accountable as in deliberate breach of an international agreement.
It's not the bomb programme per se. It's the clear evidence of really bad faith behind it that worries people.
 
#12
HectortheInspector said:
The Iranians do have previous for this sort of non-declaration, and building a Mk 1 James Bond Villain Secret Base (TM) inside a mountain doesn't add to people's belief in their good intentions.
Indeed, these surveillance pictures make it look like Iran is upto something:

 
#13
According to the news I've read, the Iranians have sent this letter to the IAEA chief declaring this plant, just hours BEFORE Obama was due to make a speech revealing that Western intelligence has had it under surveillance for months.

So, a pre-emptive confession from Tehran.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#14
Bradstyley said:
I bet the Israelis are bombing up the F-15s as we write...
I seem to recall that in conversations (including on this site) for the last several years about the Israelis bombing the Natanz site and even the use of battfield nukes by the US (I seem to recall that Bush wouldn't 'take it off the table'), that it was pretty much worked out that Natanz did exactly what it said on the tin, and that it would be a complete waste of time as the Iranians would have a back up buried under a mountain. I seem to recall a suggestion to do a google search on 'Mithras Caves' and work it out from there.

So all those who were calling for a strike on Natanz, which is probably exactly what the Iranians say it is, would have taken a move (á la the 'Shah's Game'), allowing fairly justifiably for an Iranian response, pretty much as they saw fit. As to all the threats about Natanz, that alone could be declared as sufficient threat to require a concealed (as in camouflaged) installation. As the Iranians say it wasn't that secret; they're right we've been talking about the probability for years on arrse!!

(edited for multiple typos)
 
#15
Bradstyley said:
I bet the Israelis are bombing up the F-15s as we write...
I hope so.
 
#16
littlejim said:
Yeah, right, and the Israeli nuclear weapon plants are surrounded by big flashing neon lights inviting journalists to come in and have a look around.

Same old double standards Western hypocrisy.

Same old failure to mention the only existing nuclear power in the Middle East.

Same old failure to suggest any kinds of sanctions against Israel for its nuclear program and its 'too numerous to mention war' crimes.

Same old 'US President goes to water when told what to do by Jerusalem' routine.

Same old lack of justification for starting yet another totally stupid war against the Muslims.

Same old madness by the West in driving Iran into China's sphere of influence.

Same old, same old.
You dislike Jews as much as I dislike muslims.
 
#17
RangeStew said:
Bradstyley said:
I bet the Israelis are bombing up the F-15s as we write...
I hope so.
I don't think the Israelis will bother taking it out, as it is of more use in the media.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#18
SSeeker said:
RangeStew said:
Bradstyley said:
I bet the Israelis are bombing up the F-15s as we write...
I hope so.
I don't think the Israelis will bother taking it out, as it is of more use in the media.
But useful for what? The media can't stop weapons production if the Iranians decide that's what they want, and failing a Telemark type operation (ooh deja vu moment!!!), there's not much point to media and public backing for an operation that won't work; how much damage would a TNW do to a mountain??
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#19
As an interesting aside, I believe it was the Shah's regime that signed the non-proliferation agreement. So given that the Islamic republic can claim a clean break with that regime in '79, they could argue that they are not obliged to recognise it?


(edited to add the Islamic republic signed a voluntary agreement in 2003, subsequent to the 1974 signing by the Shah, and withdraw its 'signature' from that voluntary agreement in 2006)
 
#20
Nehustan said:
SSeeker said:
RangeStew said:
Bradstyley said:
I bet the Israelis are bombing up the F-15s as we write...
I hope so.
I don't think the Israelis will bother taking it out, as it is of more use in the media.
But useful for what? The media can't stop weapons production if the Iranians decide that's what they want, and failing a Telemark type operation (ooh deja vu moment!!!), there's not much point to media and public backing for an operation that won't work; how much damage would a TNW do to a mountain??

If Israeli or the USA had real concerns, don't you think it would have already been targeted??

The nuclear facility will be getting some more air time sooner or later when it is discussed in the UN and to try and drag the rest of the world into the issue.

The US has cancelled the missile defense system as well, so I guess Obama does not see it as a threat.
 

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