SEBASTIAN SHAKESPEARE: SAS hero launches full frontal assault on the Army's diversity drive

[Whiskybreath]

The shame. I'd suggest you ask for the mess Webley, but after that admission perhaps a derringer would suffice?

Never. A British weapon would suffice, which speaks loudly and forcefully but in RP. @Stonker, after his tiresome day, needs good whisky and the satisfaction of having goaded a fellow sitemember into an early, painful and horribly undignified eternity. He's the site's Major C. Scott MC, cad that he is.

(Don't mean that; just the Laphroaig talking. Good thing it's not Kentucky's product, or I'd quote from 'Natural Born Killers'.)

 

[Richard Headicus]

Never. A British weapon would suffice, which speaks loudly and forcefully but in RP. @Stonker, after his tiresome day, needs good whisky and the satisfaction of having goaded a fellow sitemember into an early, painful and horribly undignified eternity. He's the site's Major C. Scott MC, cad that he is.

(Don't mean that; just the Laphroaig talking. Good thing it's not Kentucky's product, or I'd quote from 'Natural Born Killers'.)

Sorry, didn't know of a British weapon of a small enough calibre. I would've suggested a needle, but even I'm not that cruel!
Moving on to better things, Laphroaig. I'm getting outside some Caol Ila at the moment. My first experience of Laphroaig was not the best. The only time I've ever had a "bad" whisky. I know it was bad, because the person who offered it to me spat it out. Wimp! A few years later someone else offered me some,......shit. I was pleasantly surprised when I enjoyed it. I've seen a few bottles away since then, but not for a while. I must admit to having a liking for their quarter strength. Goes down a treat.
Sláinte.

 

[Busterdog]

After the longest defeat in the history of the British army and thorough superior firepower and air support.

The Japanese were notorious for fighting to the death. That's something that can't be taught in a class it's a cultural issue.

You might want to read about the Admin Box...a wee bit before Kohima.

 

[Whiskybreath]

getting outside some Caol Ila

Good man.

 

[Gravelbelly]

The Japanese kamikaze in WW2 are a perfect example. Do you think your average stab would happily run at the enemy whilst screaming 'Banzai!'?

Better still - doing it in cold blood. Lance-Corporal William Angus VC
"Lieutenant Martin had been wounded in a night trench raid on 11-12 June and, despite searches, could not be found. As dawn broke he was seen lying, half buried under loose earth, immediately below the German parapet some 70 yards away. The whole company volunteered to rush the German trench at dusk to rescue the officer but it was realised that, lying without water under the boiling sun, the officer would probably be dead by then. The Commanding Officer agreed at midday that one man could attempt a rescue and Lance Corporal Angus was chosen from a number of volunteers. At 2pm he left his trench, under heavy covering fire, and reached Lieutenant Martin unobserved and got him out of the loose earth. Angus, it was reported, then propped Lieutenant Martin up against the German parapet and proceeded to give him a swig of brandy from a flask that he had carried with him! The Germans realised what was going on and let fly with “bombs” (hand grenades). Angus, supporting Martin, then dashed back to the Battalion’s trenches but was wounded no less than 40 times en route. Amazingly he made it, with Lieutenant Martin, to safety. Lance Corporal Angus, who had been warned when he volunteered to carry out the rescue that 'it's certain death, lad' was awarded the Victoria Cross, the first Scottish Territorial to win the award."

Even STAB Officers! Lieutenant David McGregor VC, 6th Bn Royal Scots (Territorial Force):
"when in command of a section of machineguns attached to the right flank platoon of the attacking battalion. Immediately the troops advanced they were subjected to intense enfilade machinegun fire from Hill 66 on the right flank. Lt. McGregor fearlessly went forward and located the enemy guns, and realised it was impossible to get his guns carried forward either by pack or by hand without great delay, as the ground was absolutely bare and fire-swept. Ordering his men to follow by a more covered route, he mounted the limber and galloped forward under intense fire for about 600 yards to cover. The driver, horses, and limber were all hit but Lt. McGregor succeeded in getting the guns into action, effectively engaging the enemy, and enabling the advance to be resumed. With the utmost gallantry he continued to expose himself in order to direct and control the fire of his guns until, about an hour later, he was killed"

And here's another one: Naik Fazal Din VC, 10th Baloch Regiment:
"On reaching the area, the section was held up by Light Machine Gun fire and grenades from the bunkers. Unhesitatingly Naik Fazal Din personally attacked the nearest bunker with grenades and silenced it. He then led his section under heavy fire against the other bunkers. Suddenly six Japanese, led by two officers wielding swords, rushed from the house. The Bren gunner shot one officer and a Japanese other rank but by then had expended the magazine of the gun. He was almost simultaneously attacked by the second Japanese officer who killed him with his sword. Naik Fazal Din went to the Bren gunner's assistance immediately but, in doing so, was run through the chest by the officer, the sword point appearing through his back. On the Japanese officer withdrawing his sword, Naik Fazal Din, despite his terrible wound, tore the sword from the officer and killed him with it. He then attacked a Japanese other rank and also killed him. He then went to the assistance of a sepoy of his section who was struggling with another Japanese and killed the latter with the sword. Then, waving the sword, he continued to encourage his men. He staggered to Platoon Headquarters, about 25 yards away, to make a report and collapsed. He died soon after reaching the Regimental Aid Post."

 

[Whiskybreath]

Those other ranks can make a difference, it seems.

 

[Dashing_Chap]

Better still - doing it in cold blood. Lance-Corporal William Angus VC
"Lieutenant Martin had been wounded in a night trench raid on 11-12 June and, despite searches, could not be found. As dawn broke he was seen lying, half buried under loose earth, immediately below the German parapet some 70 yards away. The whole company volunteered to rush the German trench at dusk to rescue the officer but it was realised that, lying without water under the boiling sun, the officer would probably be dead by then. The Commanding Officer agreed at midday that one man could attempt a rescue and Lance Corporal Angus was chosen from a number of volunteers. At 2pm he left his trench, under heavy covering fire, and reached Lieutenant Martin unobserved and got him out of the loose earth. Angus, it was reported, then propped Lieutenant Martin up against the German parapet and proceeded to give him a swig of brandy from a flask that he had carried with him! The Germans realised what was going on and let fly with “bombs” (hand grenades). Angus, supporting Martin, then dashed back to the Battalion’s trenches but was wounded no less than 40 times en route. Amazingly he made it, with Lieutenant Martin, to safety. Lance Corporal Angus, who had been warned when he volunteered to carry out the rescue that 'it's certain death, lad' was awarded the Victoria Cross, the first Scottish Territorial to win the award."

Even STAB Officers! Lieutenant David McGregor VC, 6th Bn Royal Scots (Territorial Force):
"when in command of a section of machineguns attached to the right flank platoon of the attacking battalion. Immediately the troops advanced they were subjected to intense enfilade machinegun fire from Hill 66 on the right flank. Lt. McGregor fearlessly went forward and located the enemy guns, and realised it was impossible to get his guns carried forward either by pack or by hand without great delay, as the ground was absolutely bare and fire-swept. Ordering his men to follow by a more covered route, he mounted the limber and galloped forward under intense fire for about 600 yards to cover. The driver, horses, and limber were all hit but Lt. McGregor succeeded in getting the guns into action, effectively engaging the enemy, and enabling the advance to be resumed. With the utmost gallantry he continued to expose himself in order to direct and control the fire of his guns until, about an hour later, he was killed"

And here's another one: Naik Fazal Din VC, 10th Baloch Regiment:
"On reaching the area, the section was held up by Light Machine Gun fire and grenades from the bunkers. Unhesitatingly Naik Fazal Din personally attacked the nearest bunker with grenades and silenced it. He then led his section under heavy fire against the other bunkers. Suddenly six Japanese, led by two officers wielding swords, rushed from the house. The Bren gunner shot one officer and a Japanese other rank but by then had expended the magazine of the gun. He was almost simultaneously attacked by the second Japanese officer who killed him with his sword. Naik Fazal Din went to the Bren gunner's assistance immediately but, in doing so, was run through the chest by the officer, the sword point appearing through his back. On the Japanese officer withdrawing his sword, Naik Fazal Din, despite his terrible wound, tore the sword from the officer and killed him with it. He then attacked a Japanese other rank and also killed him. He then went to the assistance of a sepoy of his section who was struggling with another Japanese and killed the latter with the sword. Then, waving the sword, he continued to encourage his men. He staggered to Platoon Headquarters, about 25 yards away, to make a report and collapsed. He died soon after reaching the Regimental Aid Post."

Very gallant, but I don't think these were your average stabs, for the Japanese running into enemy fire was de rigueur. Kamikaze is what they are known for. It's unfortunate that their bad behaviour let them down, otherwise they would have a very impressive reputation.

 

[Stonker]

I don't think these were your average stabs,

A definition would help here.

On the basis of it, innumerable well evidenced examples from conflicts pre-dating the formal establishment of the Territorial Force in the run-up to WW1, to the most recent shambolics in the Middle East and South Asia, can without doubt be produced to demonstrate that brave and capable soldiers are not the sole preserve of the Regular Army.

Perhaps you should get out more?

 

[Richard Headicus]

A definition would help here.
Perhaps you should get out more?

I've admitted to serving before Operation Banner kicked off. Perhaps you missed Operation Banter?

 

[Dashing_Chap]

A definition would help here.

On the basis of it, innumerable well evidenced examples from conflicts pre-dating the formal establishment of the Territorial Force in the run-up to WW1, to the most recent shambolics in the Middle East and South Asia, can without doubt be produced to demonstrate that brave and capable soldiers are not the sole preserve of the Regular Army.

Perhaps you should get out more?

You're still not getting my point.

The Japanese ran into machine gun fire as standard, it was expected of them and part of their military ethos. That's my point, I'm not diminishing stab bravery, that can be found in every army, but for the Japanese it was a standard to die for the emperor. That's why they did kamikaze, hara kiri and human wave attacks.

 

[Cutaway]

That's why they did kamikaze, hara kiri and human wave attacks.

Those seppuku attacks must have been messy.

 

[Tuffty]

i am currently reading a book about Freddy Spencer Chapman and his battles in Burma during WW2. It seems that not the Sikhs were on our side as most people seem to think

 

[jrwlynch]

Those seppuku attacks must have been messy.

Judean People's Front suicide squad! Attack!

 

[Gravelbelly]

Very gallant, but I don't think these were your average stabs, for the Japanese running into enemy fire was de rigueur.

What about 51 Highland Division, of the North African and Italian campaigns? Territorials.

Or perhaps 52 Lowland Division on Operation INFATUATE? Territorials. I only found out last year that my woodwork teacher was awarded an MM for doing a solo stalk of a bunker, under fire, with a PIAT.

Or even 50th Northumbrian Division on Operation OVERLORD? It was a Territorial formation who took Gold Beach on D-Day.

And that's before you look at Airborne Forces - several battalions of the Parachute Regiment were formed from Territorial infantry battalions (5, 6, 12, 13 PARA).

But fair enough, let's try something more recent: TELIC 3, 1PWRR and CIMIC House. Now this may be utter bollocks, but one version I heard was that the Main Effort got blocked, and it was the secondary axis who eventually made it in - except they'd put the STABs on the secondary axis, so they were the ones running the gauntlet and leading the way...

Kamikaze is what they are known for. It's unfortunate that their bad behaviour let them down, otherwise they would have a very impressive reputation.

Impressive? Much like the SS, they had a couple of years headstart (because they knew when the war was starting) and managed some early successes while their opponents caught up.

After that, they got utterly humped on every front, by every opponent. Fanatical incompetence isn't "impressive", particularly when their logistics were so utterly awful that their troops froze to death / ate their own logistics and artillery prime movers (Germans on the Russian Front) or starved to death in the advance (Japanese in Burma).

"Impressive" could be used for Zhukov - utterly f*cked the Japanese at Khalkhin Gol, utterly f*cked the Germans on the Ostfront.

 

[Unremarkable]

Judean People's Front suicide squad! Attack!

Monty Python may jest, but a battle in Warring States Period China began with a front rank of condemned criminals cutting their own throats.
I think it may have been the Qin.

 

[MoleBath]

The RAF equivalent would be a rank ripping up their expenses forms in the face of the enemy to demonstrate resolve

 

[Choux Bun]

Some certainly are, any black, Muslim, female, disabled photo ops and they will fight to get in the frame, things like actually improving the army and its, meh.

IMHO... a continuing and ridiculous quest for total inclusion/fair play for everyone, just ensures there's no effective play at all, for anyone.

 

[Turret_Monster]

IMHO... a continuing and ridiculous quest for total inclusion/fair play for everyone, just ensures there's no effective play at all, for anyone.

But does it though? In reality all that's required is not to treat anyone like a c***. It's really not that hard unless you're one of those people who has trouble separating attitude from personality.

 

[Stonker]

But does it though? In reality all that's required is not to treat anyone like a c***

A corollary is necessary

To treat no-one as superior by virtue of their birth/inherited wealth/accent/complexion/ancestry

 

[Nomad1382]

As long as the standards don't change and the recruitment is seeking the best of a more diverse group, it's not a problem. The minute you lower the standard to be inclusive, it's over. "I understand Trooper Schmo doesn't meet SF's standards but he/she/they meet the BAME standard so they're in."