SDSR 2015 ALL Change!!!!!!!!!!!! (again) at what price? to the line Infantry??

1

1969peps

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2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) inbound, so what?

Since 1660 the Army's Infantry regiments of foot have changed time and time again, with regard to structure and size

What damage? or good? your opinion

I have seen both good and bad so want to ask others to say what they think?

Unless your Guards and Para's in which case your protected as some one in a bear skin needs to walk out side Buck house for the tourists Paras need to get off on shouting "Airborne, you hats"........


Are we a weaker Infantry for our nation? or is it better to just base ourselves on the Americans model (RIFLES big regiment model) easier to manage possibly rather then different tribal traditions to pay for and cater for

Should we just move to Infantry cap badge ARMOURD Inf / MECHANISED Inf / LIGHT ROLL Inf / AIRBORNE Inf / RESERVE Inf
 

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2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) inbound, so what?

Since 1660 the Army Infantry regiments of foot have changed time and time again, with regard to structure and size

What damage? or good? your opinion

I have seen both good and bad so want to ask others to say what they think?

Unless your Guards and Para's in which case your protected as some one needs to walk out side Buck house and shout "Airborne, you hats"........



Are we a weaker Infantry for our nation or is it better to just base ourselves on the Americans / Rifles model (no dig at the Rifles but they are the big Reg model) easier to manage one thinks)
To be fair line infantry regiments are pretty wnak.

Just keep her majesty's Royal Marines, the paras, Gurkhas, and guards together with some chosen men. That's all we need.
 
Since 1660 the Army Infantry regiments of foot have changed time and time again, with regard to structure and size

What damage? or good? your opinion
I dunno. Why not ask someone in the Buffs. Oh wait, they don't exist anymore. Try the Gordon Highlanders, No they don't exist anymore either. South Lancs, East Yorks, the Border Regt. All gone. Not much damage done at all then.
 

FEASG

LE
From talking to friends in the recruiting group, some of the sacred cows have just as many problems recruiting now days, and if the army is going back to the days when only SF get to do anything this will remain the case. Personally I think the whole Reactive/ Adaptive force thing was Ill conceived, and it would be better to just have fewer Bns, but fully manned by Regulars, and the reserve concentrating on providing BCR/IR or formed coys for FP rather than trying to provide standing units as in WW1.

Of course to do this there will have to be cuts in the number of Regular Bns. To this end I expect what, at present, are the (Admin only) divisions of Infantry to reduce into one 3 Bn regiment. For instance my old Division (Queen’s Div) losing two Bns and Having One Bn in the armoured infantry roll, and two light roll units, to give a bit of career change.

Para’s normal jogging, they may not jump out of planes that much, but no reason to lose the capability, they would remain with the Air Assult/ SFSG roll. Royal (although not army, but much of their support is) same detail. Sadly I think Johnny Gurkhas days are numbered, since they now contribute little of their pensions to the GDP of Nepal, The Nepalese government will not be so keen on us recruiting them and will put a stop to it. No amount of “Daddy was in the Raj and Bravest of the brave” will stop this (Well done Joanna!).

Finally the Guards, I have heard all sorts of rumours over the years (From members of the Bde) from one of their Bns becoming a Reserve unit (London’s Rebadged???/ highly unlikely) to a Guards Cap star for operational units, and a mixed cap star unit for ceremonial (Think a bit like HCR/HCMR) But I think this will be a move to far, so expect them to at worse lose the incremental companies.

Simple fact is we now have no Banner/ Telic/Herrick to hold back the cuts, coupled with no real political will to intervene in operations involving large deployments. The Crash of 2008 is forcing the country to define its place in the world rather than Punching above our weight, all things to all men that it has been trying ,and failing since WW 2.
 
You're all wrong!
 
I dunno. Why not ask someone in the Buffs. Oh wait, they don't exist anymore. Try the Gordon Highlanders, No they don't exist anymore either. South Lancs, East Yorks, the Border Regt. All gone. Not much damage done at all then.
Or the Green Howards or the Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters or the Cameron and Seaforth Highlanders...
 
Six posts and no mention of the Mighty SCOTS who combine both lowland and highland traditions.........
Apologies to those defunct names mentions above.
 
Said it years ago.

They need to bin all these Duke of randomCountyShire regiment names and uniform oddities etc and just rebadge as "Light Infantry" "Armoured Infantry" etc etc.

Sideways development as well as diagonal promotion opportunities should be encouraged, not hindered by petty allegiances to a cap badge that gets rebranded every 6 weeks.
 
Or the 2nd, 3rd, 31st, 35th, 50th, 57th, 70th, 77th, 97th or the 107th of Foot.
 
'Keep your hands off the regiment, ye iconoclastic civilian officials who meddle and muddle in Army affairs' Sir Garnet Wolseley

Regiments are not like houses. they cannot be pulled down and altered structurally to suit the convenience of the occupier or the caprice of the owner. They are more like plants; they grow slowly if they are to grow strong...and if they are blighted or transplanted they are apt to wither. - Winston Churchill
 
1

1969peps

Guest
From talking to friends in the recruiting group, some of the sacred cows have just as many problems recruiting now days, and if the army is going back to the days when only SF get to do anything this will remain the case. Personally I think the whole Reactive/ Adaptive force thing was Ill conceived, and it would be better to just have fewer Bns, but fully manned by Regulars, and the reserve concentrating on providing BCR/IR or formed coys for FP rather than trying to provide standing units as in WW1.

Of course to do this there will have to be cuts in the number of Regular Bns. To this end I expect what, at present, are the (Admin only) divisions of Infantry to reduce into one 3 Bn regiment. For instance my old Division (Queen’s Div) losing two Bns and Having One Bn in the armoured infantry roll, and two light roll units, to give a bit of career change.

Para’s normal jogging, they may not jump out of planes that much, but no reason to lose the capability, they would remain with the Air Assult/ SFSG roll. Royal (although not army, but much of their support is) same detail. Sadly I think Johnny Gurkhas days are numbered, since they now contribute little of their pensions to the GDP of Nepal, The Nepalese government will not be so keen on us recruiting them and will put a stop to it. No amount of “Daddy was in the Raj and Bravest of the brave” will stop this (Well done Joanna!).

Finally the Guards, I have heard all sorts of rumours over the years (From members of the Bde) from one of their Bns becoming a Reserve unit (London’s Rebadged???/ highly unlikely) to a Guards Cap star for operational units, and a mixed cap star unit for ceremonial (Think a bit like HCR/HCMR) But I think this will be a move to far, so expect them to at worse lose the incremental companies.

Simple fact is we now have no Banner/ Telic/Herrick to hold back the cuts, coupled with no real political will to intervene in operations involving large deployments. The Crash of 2008 is forcing the country to define its place in the world rather than Punching above our weight, all things to all men that it has been trying ,and failing since WW 2.

Could well be right but why "if it aint broken, don’t fix it"

Another good idea, some ones personnel great strategy to reform the army (again.)
Maybe I am a looking at it all wrong, Gen Jackson did it for all the right reasons in 2005? although it was cool the way that SFSG fell to his favourites and the last round masterminded by a certain Rifles (black mafia) old guard had them un scathed.

We might of been punching above our weight agreed but it was only 75 years ago this country future hung in the balance with Germany having just defeated us in Europe poised to cross the channel, and I don't say it often but the RAF fight kept us from speaking German and wearing black uniforms not no 2 dress khaki.

If we drop to a Infantry level lower then we are then I think we are done as a country that can defend ourselves state on state.

As for the smashing the counties Infantry again it will be what it will be, but once done it’s something we will never come back from. For years I am sure we have all heard about the Americans envy of our tribalism and fierce pride

So lets see will SDSR 2015 do something the French Spanish Germans etc could not do smash the British Infantry once and for all?
 
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1969peps

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Said it years ago.

They need to bin all these Duke of randomCountyShire regiment names and uniform oddities etc and just rebadge as "Light Infantry" "Armoured Infantry" etc etc.

Sideways development as well as diagonal promotion opportunities should be encouraged, not hindered by petty allegiances to a cap badge that gets rebranded every 6 weeks.
When you work with the American army, if you look out the corner of your eye you will see them look at you, the British Infantier with your tribalism and pride and it is something they would want but will never have. Become a AI / Light roll / Airborne / etc roll sleeves down shirts out and ban stable belts, TRF/DZ flash only issued rank slide etc army

Introduce more equal opportunities, rank fraternisation, were all mates together, fluffy kittens, and **** it lets have a trade Union!!!!!!!! Infantry and you can be the lefty lovey

Go corpe infantry!!!!!!!

Forgot to mention no pride, no devotion to Regiment and those that wore the cap badge before you or total professionalism and yes your just sh_t in uniform fit to fail, not fit to fight
 
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When you work with the American army, if you look out the corner of your eye you will see them look at you, the British Infantier with your tribalism and pride and it is something they would want but will never have. Become a AI / Light roll / Airborne / etc roll sleeves down shirts out and ban stable belts, TRF/DZ flash only issued rank slide etc army

Introduce more equal opportunities, rank fraternisation, were all mates together, fluffy kittens, and **** it lets have a trade Union!!!!!!!! Infantry and you can be the lefty lovey

Go corpe infantry!!!!!!!

Forgot to mention no pride, no devotion to Regiment and those that wore the cap badge before you or total professionalism and yes your just sh_t in uniform fit to fail, not fit to fight
"Send Key Setting over"
 
Its early so excuse the brief idealistic model:

A pragmatic and realistic SDSR that apart from 'them' refrains from the protected Unit/Regiment ethos & mindset.

An adaptable/reactive force with capability, strength and punch.

Recruitment, retention and service support given an overhaul or at least maintain or boost it's budget.

I've not worked with the RN or RAF for a while so another Arrser with up to date info, subject knowledge and experience would be best to suggest and comment on what would benefit the other services.

In summary: Its pretty obvious that efficiency will be closely monitored, accountability and fiscal governance even more so in order for the taxpayer gets an HM Forces which is credible, fit for purpose and task worthy for any incident domestic or other.
 

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