SDR, White paper and changing role of the army

#1
I am trying to understand all the recent changes that have taken place within the British Army since 9/11 (the SDR new chapter, White paper 'Delivering Security in a changing world etc), however can find limited reaction to this and how serving personnel feel about these changes.

I would also be interested on how peoples views are on the changing role of the army, how the structure is setup for success in the future and feelings towards the changing threats the army faces. I mean, to me, the armys role against terrorism is complex, taking part in conventional operations to defeat an enemy, intelligence gathering, peacekeeping, and 'winning hearts and minds' ...

Would there be a benefit (as terrorism is at some level, fundamentally psychological) in training more officers in this field (to combat the enemy and consider the effects of terrorist action. Is there a need for a greater understanding of the Islamic faith - would there be a benfit in an increase in the number of Muslim officers and more with arabic and asian laguage skills?
 
#2
ojj00u said:
I am trying to understand all the recent changes that have taken place within the British Army since 9/11 (the SDR new chapter, White paper 'Delivering Security in a changing world etc), however can find limited reaction to this and how serving personnel feel about these changes.

I would also be interested on how peoples views are on the changing role of the army, how the structure is setup for success in the future and feelings towards the changing threats the army faces. I mean, to me, the armys role against terrorism is complex, taking part in conventional operations to defeat an enemy, intelligence gathering, peacekeeping, and 'winning hearts and minds' ...

Would there be a benefit (as terrorism is at some level, fundamentally psychological) in training more officers in this field (to combat the enemy and consider the effects of terrorist action. Is there a need for a greater understanding of the Islamic faith - would there be a benfit in an increase in the number of Muslim officers and more with arabic and asian laguage skills?
Fcuk me mate!
How about introducing yourself first?

My alarm bells are ringing!!!
 

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#3
ojj00u said:
I am trying to understand all the recent changes that have taken place within the British Army since 9/11 (the SDR new chapter, White paper 'Delivering Security in a changing world etc), however can find limited reaction to this and how serving personnel feel about these changes.

I would also be interested on how peoples views are on the changing role of the army, how the structure is setup for success in the future and feelings towards the changing threats the army faces. I mean, to me, the armys role against terrorism is complex, taking part in conventional operations to defeat an enemy, intelligence gathering, peacekeeping, and 'winning hearts and minds' ...

Would there be a benefit (as terrorism is at some level, fundamentally psychological) in training more officers in this field (to combat the enemy and consider the effects of terrorist action. Is there a need for a greater understanding of the Islamic faith - would there be a benfit in an increase in the number of Muslim officers and more with arabic and asian laguage skills?
Sloppy journalistic skill there boy.
Do your own bloody research.
 
#4
An introduction ,and why you are asking what on the surface appears mild, but in fact would lead to some interesting answers I think, would be appreciated.
 
#5
ojj00u said:
I am trying to understand all the recent changes that have taken place within the British Army since 9/11 (the SDR new chapter, White paper 'Delivering Security in a changing world etc), however can find limited reaction to this and how serving personnel feel about these changes.

I would also be interested on how peoples views are on the changing role of the army, how the structure is setup for success in the future and feelings towards the changing threats the army faces. I mean, to me, the armys role against terrorism is complex, taking part in conventional operations to defeat an enemy, intelligence gathering, peacekeeping, and 'winning hearts and minds' ...

Would there be a benefit (as terrorism is at some level, fundamentally psychological) in training more officers in this field (to combat the enemy and consider the effects of terrorist action. Is there a need for a greater understanding of the Islamic faith - would there be a benfit in an increase in the number of Muslim officers and more with arabic and asian laguage skills?[/quote]

Agreed PTP but in bold is what gets my goat. Although the whole question may bring up good debate, the next thing you know Arrse members may be splashed all over the tabloids with headings such as British Army not in touch with Islam, springs to mind.

Maybe im out of touch with Arrse but im not at all keen on this type of first post and i would certainly be very wary on commenting on this thread.

As i said before, my Alarm bells are ringing!!!
 
#6
PartTimePongo said:
An introduction and why you are asking , what on the surface appears mild, but in fact would lead to some interesting answers I think would be appreciated.
Have you been on the pop, PTP?
 
#7
ojj00u said:
I am trying to understand all the recent changes that have taken place within the British Army since 9/11 (the SDR new chapter, White paper 'Delivering Security in a changing world etc), however can find limited reaction to this and how serving personnel feel about these changes.

I would also be interested on how peoples views are on the changing role of the army, how the structure is setup for success in the future and feelings towards the changing threats the army faces. I mean, to me, the armys role against terrorism is complex, taking part in conventional operations to defeat an enemy, intelligence gathering, peacekeeping, and 'winning hearts and minds' ...

Would there be a benefit (as terrorism is at some level, fundamentally psychological) in training more officers in this field (to combat the enemy and consider the effects of terrorist action. Is there a need for a greater understanding of the Islamic faith - would there be a benfit in an increase in the number of Muslim officers and more with arabic and asian laguage skills?
So, what red-top would you be working for, then?
 
#8
I don't know FAS , I confused myself there :(
 
#10
Apologies for the lack of an introduction/setting the scene etc! I am going to Sandhurst May next year and have my attchment with the Signals coming up. Not too far off with the essay title; I have been asked to prepare a presentation on 'anything military related' to present to the soldiers.

Many ideas came to me, however this seemed particularly topical and I thought would spark some good debate and questions come the end of the presentation, it is also an area of the army I do not have a great understanding of and I feel is very interesting and would like to know more in this space and get others views
 
#11
Here's a better title for you - I suspect a topic such as this 'to present to the soldiers' may have them yawning a bit..."Why are we guarding NAAFI rolls?"
 
#12
Hi
When you go to Sandhurst they will educate you as to the Army way. I admire your innocence of youth to ask such questions and not see the depth of what what you are asking and depth of feeling it will invoke in the audiance. However consider your questions carefully and if you are looking to invoke debate and reaction make sure you are equipped enough to deal with the response. All life skills you will pick up in the fullness of time. I, in no way wish to sound condersending but offer you some food for thought.
Many soldiers right now serve in a force, under manned, under pressure and deployed in two medium sized operations. These operations are not popular with the general population and that effects our status in the minds of some. Those who serve are probably some of THE most pariotic people in the UK and they will feel passionately about their country probably more than most.
However they are not stupid, we are all adults capable of reasoned debate both outside, but more so within our own closed circle i.e with those who understand the military way of life and all that entails.
Good luck on what you seek but there is plenty of material out there to answer the questions you seek - if you want opinions then in your presentation ask the questions to the answers you seek from your audiance and you will be more successful - few here will committ to writing the answers to your questions here on such a public domain for obvious reason we still have a job to do that pays the bills!

Good luck at Sandhurst you could have the potetial to do well - just think before you ask your questions

Cheers
 
#13
Thanks for the responses - I fully take on board your points and was indeed looking to invoke debate and reaction, however yes, I take your point that I may well be very under-equipped to deal with the responses and this was perhaps not the forum to come looking for the questions and thoughts I had running around my mind; I shall give this further consideration Apologies to anyone to whom the apparent naivety of my questions may have stirred an unwanted reaction.
 
#14
ojj00u said:
Thanks for the responses - I fully take on board your points and was indeed looking to invoke debate and reaction, however yes, I take your point that I may well be very under-equipped to deal with the responses and this was perhaps not the forum to come looking for the questions and thoughts I had running around my mind; I shall give this further consideration Apologies to anyone to whom the apparent naivety of my questions may have stirred an unwanted reaction.
Yes, your original topic was most interesting but frankly of little value to the average Tom. Something along the lines of 3 PARA in Helmand would probably be more gripping and there is a sh1t load of stuff in the open media. You can download some youtube footage and make it go with a bang before dropping the "take-home" point that even though you are all Scaleys, you may need to be pukka soldiers sooner than you think and to pay attention to weapon handling and fitness! Good luck.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#15
How's this for a topic:

Why do the sigs get trade pay and the infantry not. Pick a side and come out fighting.... Personally I think its because the infantry are too thick to operate anything with more than four buttons, levers or switches...

Should go down well with your DS
 
#16
ojj00u,

Your title is fairly inoccuous, but the approach you have chosen is playing with fire. It may be an excellent debating point in a university OTC gathering, but don't take it to the real Army. I doubt the DS at Sandhurst would welcome such a 'presentation' from a spotty PO; your average Tom is likely to nod off after 5 seconds - or tear you apart!

Take your contentious issue regarding muslim officers. There are plenty of arabic speakers in the Army, and interpreters are two a penny in theater. I also suggest your average Tom couldn't care less what religion his officers are, as long as they do a decent job and look after him. Do you really think he is bothered whether 'Sir' can haggle with the locals for a discount in the bazaar? Then ask him whether he thinks it would be good to have a few muslim officers parachuted in to look PC - and you may find it difficult to get out of the room with your shirt still on.

Save such a research/speaking project for when you are invited to lecture at the Defence Academy or you're invited to pontificate on that topic whilst attending Staff College.

For the signals troops, Cuddles has a decent idea. But DO NOT attempt that topic if you are visiting 216 Sigs Sqn!!!! And beware of the question, "I've just got back from a tour in Helmand - what the feck do you know about the subject?"

Maybe try to do a bit of research into finding a humourous way to explain why the British Army is now converting to an expensive crock of sh!te called BOWMAN - when every Tom has a far better functionning piece of kit in his pocket given out free by the Carphone Warehouse. :)
 
#17
Mr Happy said:
How's this for a topic:

Why do the sigs get trade pay and the infantry not. Pick a side and come out fighting.... Personally I think its because the infantry are too thick to operate anything with more than four buttons, levers or switches...

Should go down well with your DS
It doesn't take too much effort to uncover serious research to show that the Infantry, functioning as they do, at the sharpest edge of Army operations, are faced - as individuals - with the most demanding and complex set of simultaneous tasks.

That this level of complexity is loaded upon (almost) the most 'simple' of the British Army's soldiers, while the design of modern technology erodes - from REME and R Sigs, for example - the need for high skill levels, is a reflection not of reasoned analysis, but of the continuing influence of deep-rooted prejudices, endemic in, and damaging to real the interests of, the British Army.

Won't help with yr essay, perhaps - but may make you think . . .
 
#18
Good to read your post. Good luck at Sandhurst - get fit before you go and stay fit whilst there. If I may advise you to remember three things.

Firstly, your prime responsibility when you are commissioned is to put the well-being of the men and women under your command first, second, third and last and always, always, before your own.

Secondly, whatever your cap-badge - you are part of a team. All players in the team are vital.

Thirdly, all the players combine to place on the ground and then support the infantry man. The finest tanks, guns, aircraft, communication systems, equipment and weapons count for nothing unless the infantry man and soldiers in the infantry role, hold the ground.
Best wishes.
 
#19
Mr Happy said:
How's this for a topic:

Why do the sigs get trade pay and the infantry not. Pick a side and come out fighting.... Personally I think its because the infantry are too thick to operate anything with more than four buttons, levers or switches...

Should go down well with your DS
Ah, Mr Happy - would you perchance a)be of RSIGNALS stock and b)miffed by my earlier post, reading some criticism into it, that I did not intend?
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#20
Stonker said:
Mr Happy said:
How's this for a topic:

Why do the sigs get trade pay and the infantry not. Pick a side and come out fighting.... Personally I think its because the infantry are too thick to operate anything with more than four buttons, levers or switches...

Should go down well with your DS
It doesn't take too much effort to uncover serious research to show that the Infantry, functioning as they do, at the sharpest edge of Army operations, are faced - as individuals - with the most demanding and complex set of simultaneous tasks.

That this level of complexity is loaded upon (almost) the most 'simple' of the British Army's soldiers, while the design of modern technology erodes - from REME and R Sigs, for example - the need for high skill levels, is a reflection not of reasoned analysis, but of the continuing influence of deep-rooted prejudices, endemic in, and damaging to real the interests of, the British Army.

Won't help with yr essay, perhaps - but may make you think . . .
Quite Right! 90 years ago the role was to run at the enemy whilst bright sparks were, well, sparky's or RA or some such. The lack of trade pay and the consideration that inf are cannon fodder is of course ridiculous these days. The Royal Marines IIRC have recognised this with RM wanting 4/5 GCSE's to get in as a basic booty, in the army thats a short term commission!

The US is however far worse, with their inf cmdrs being the bottom of the pile - apparently. Comments?

Cuddles, tongue in cheek brother - I'm ex sect gunner, ex HQ sqn rad-op, ex-Recce, ex sect cmdr.
 
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