Screw up on Mil Pensions - Over Payments

#1
Just had a piece on BBC News 24 commenting on the fact that a large number (think I heard 100000) public pensions from the NHS and Army (may just be the BBC but the commentator said Army specifically) are being overpaid and monies are going to be recovered.

Can't find a link yet.

Anyone in BAFF or the wider audience know about anything about this?

Sounds like a prize fcuk up :(
 
#3
Thanks for the link.

Joy.

Anyone "been informed" yet how much their pension is going to be reduced to next year?
 

Sixty

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#5
Mr Darling intervened a few moments later, said the money would not have to be repaid but added: "It will be necessary to adjust what's paid for the future."
From the BBC Report.


Quite the most disingenuous statement made in this whole affair. Good news! You won't have to pay it back......Bad news! We're cutting your future payments.

I wonder in which universe this isn't 'money being repaid'? Darling should be skewered for that particular bit of spin.


skintboymike said:
can they legally do that?
Yes, I'm afraid they can.
 
#6
Mr Darling intervened a few moments later, said the money would not have to be repaid but added: "It will be necessary to adjust what's paid for the future."
They have overpaid but they are not going to claw back any of the overpaid amount. That is fair because it is they who inform us what we are getting.
Naturally the amount paid will have to revert to the correct amount. Just because a mistake was once made shouldn't entitle you to a lifetime of overpayment. If an underpayment has been made you wouldn't be complaining about being paid the correct (higher) amount would you?
 

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#7
Markintime said:
They have overpaid but they are not going to claw back any of the overpaid amount. That is fair because it is they who inform us what we are getting.
Naturally the amount paid will have to revert to the correct amount. Just because a mistake was once made shouldn't entitle you to a lifetime of overpayment. If an underpayment has been made you wouldn't be complaining about being paid the correct (higher) amount would you?
Markintime, I'm reading it as your future payments will be reduced to pay for it.

It won't drop to the correct amount. It'll be lower to reconcile the overpayment.
 
#8
Prince_Rupert said:
Markintime said:
They have overpaid but they are not going to claw back any of the overpaid amount. That is fair because it is they who inform us what we are getting.
Naturally the amount paid will have to revert to the correct amount. Just because a mistake was once made shouldn't entitle you to a lifetime of overpayment. If an underpayment has been made you wouldn't be complaining about being paid the correct (higher) amount would you?
Markintime, I'm reading it as your future payments will be reduced to pay for it.

It won't drop to the correct amount. It'll be lower to reconcile the overpayment.
I hope not. I await further analysis.

Edited to add: If the overpayment concerned Army alone they might try to do that but since it also involves their pet NHS I doubt it. The NHS is far too litigious and the resultant headlines about stealing from the angels would be devastating!
 
#9
Does this mean the pension calculator is wrong?
 
#10
in_the_cheapseats said:
Thanks for the link.

Joy.

Anyone "been informed" yet how much their pension is going to be reduced to next year?
The story on Radio 4 ended with the advice that the Cabinet Office would issue a statement tomorrow.

Best to wait for that...

Litotes
 

Sixty

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#11
Markintime said:
Prince_Rupert said:
Markintime said:
They have overpaid but they are not going to claw back any of the overpaid amount. That is fair because it is they who inform us what we are getting.
Naturally the amount paid will have to revert to the correct amount. Just because a mistake was once made shouldn't entitle you to a lifetime of overpayment. If an underpayment has been made you wouldn't be complaining about being paid the correct (higher) amount would you?
Markintime, I'm reading it as your future payments will be reduced to pay for it.

It won't drop to the correct amount. It'll be lower to reconcile the overpayment.
I hope not. I await further analysis.

Edited to add: If the overpayment concerned Army alone they might try to do that but since it also involves their pet NHS I doubt it. The NHS is far too litigious and the resultant headlines about stealing from the angels would be devastating!



If they adhere to standard industry practice then it'll be clawed back whether they're NHS or Mil.

Now for the bit that might be balls since I have no knowledge of the Armed Forces pension scheme (I'm TA).

In the industry if it's an unsecured pension, the Government allow you a certain amount of income (the GAD allowance) determined by age and sex and value of fund and if more than this is paid it's an overpayment and must be clawed back or it counts as an unauthorised payment by HMRC and could result in a tax liability for the recipient and /or a penalty for the administrators of the scheme.

Now, if as I suspect, it's more like an annuity arrangement, then if it was worked out on the wrong basis then it is equally repayable.

As you say though, it'll be interesting to see what way the political wind blows.
 
#12
When I got divorced of course my pension payments were taken into account when the Finacial settlement was made. I wonder if there will be an adjustment to what my ex wife was awarded!!!!
 
#13
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5349141.ece

Tens of thousands of former public-sector employees face a cut in their income after it emerged that overpayments worth millions of pounds had been made to their pensions.

Retired NHS staff and armed services personnel may have been overpaid for decades by the company Xafinity, which administers about 5 per cent of Britain’s two million public-sector pensions.

Those affected are not expected to be asked to pay the money back but their income will be reduced to the correct level from April.

Vince Cable, the Liberal Democrats’ treasury spokesman, made the disclosures in the House of Commons yesterday – a move which angered the Government, which had been preparing to make a statement on the overpayments today.

Related Links
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Public sector pensions will cost £1 trillion
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There is already growing concern over the cost of the generous packages enjoyed by 5.2 million state employees, which critics say represents a financial timebomb.

Matthew Elliott, of the Taxpayers’ Alliance, said after Mr Cable’s revelations: “A staggering amount has been wasted in this fiasco.

“Public-sector pensions have long been a black hole for public money, but to learn that already gold-plated packages have cost the man on the street even more due to incompetent administration is a disgrace.”

In the Commons, Mr Cable asked Alistair Darling how many people were involved, how much money was involved and what steps would be taken to retrieve the overpayments, “which I understand in some cases go back decades and are potentially enormous”. Mr Cable added: “I hope none of us can face the possibility of large numbers of ex-servicemen suddenly being faced with bailiffs turning up and asking them to repay overpayments.”The Chancellor replied: “It does need to be put right from next year. There will be a statement tomorrow from the Cabinet Office.”

Mr Cable’s disclosure of the problem provoked government insiders to accuse him of breaking an informal agreement for the sake of political expediency.
 
#14
gaijin said:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5349141.ece

Tens of thousands of former public-sector employees face a cut in their income after it emerged that overpayments worth millions of pounds had been made to their pensions.

Retired NHS staff and armed services personnel may have been overpaid for decades by the company Xafinity, which administers about 5 per cent of Britain’s two million public-sector pensions.

Those affected are not expected to be asked to pay the money back but their income will be reduced to the correct level from April.

Vince Cable, the Liberal Democrats’ treasury spokesman, made the disclosures in the House of Commons yesterday – a move which angered the Government, which had been preparing to make a statement on the overpayments today.

Related Links
CBI wants public sector pensions inquiry
Public sector pensions will cost £1 trillion
Low-risk pensions lose thousands
There is already growing concern over the cost of the generous packages enjoyed by 5.2 million state employees, which critics say represents a financial timebomb.

Matthew Elliott, of the Taxpayers’ Alliance, said after Mr Cable’s revelations: “A staggering amount has been wasted in this fiasco.

“Public-sector pensions have long been a black hole for public money, but to learn that already gold-plated packages have cost the man on the street even more due to incompetent administration is a disgrace.”

In the Commons, Mr Cable asked Alistair Darling how many people were involved, how much money was involved and what steps would be taken to retrieve the overpayments, “which I understand in some cases go back decades and are potentially enormous”. Mr Cable added: “I hope none of us can face the possibility of large numbers of ex-servicemen suddenly being faced with bailiffs turning up and asking them to repay overpayments.”The Chancellor replied: “It does need to be put right from next year. There will be a statement tomorrow from the Cabinet Office.”

Mr Cable’s disclosure of the problem provoked government insiders to accuse him of breaking an informal agreement for the sake of political expediency.
LOL !!
 
#15
From the link " Matthew Elliott, of the Taxpayers’ Alliance, said after Mr Cable’s revelations: “A staggering amount has been wasted in this fiasco. Public-sector pensions have long been a black hole for public money, but to learn that already gold-plated packages have cost the man on the street even more due to incompetent administration is a disgrace.”

I was not aware that I had such a pension. Does this mean I am not involved in the adjustment?

On a tangent, I like the bit where people did not like the LimpDumbs jumping the gun. I thought that whistle-blowing MPs were wonderful things and enjoyed all controls?
 
#16
This obviously has concequences for a number of us on this board and whilst I find the negligence amusing, I am not sure it'll be funny for long. It is good news however that Vince Cable has already secured a promise that no attempt at retrospective recovery will be made.

My first questions are, who will the affect, service pensions, war pension or everything? Are we expecting a huge cut or mearly a few pounds a month? Has anyone received notification from the idiots in Crawley?
 
#17
trelawney said:
When I got divorced of course my pension payments were taken into account when the Finacial settlement was made. I wonder if there will be an adjustment to what my ex wife was awarded!!!!
Well, this is it. The implications run deep and wide and if you have been paying her too much I suppose you should be entitled to a payback too.

Trouble with the forward claw back scenario is the inability to work out how long it should take to "pay back". Five years? 10 years? 20 years? How long are people going to live for? Do you screw the money back out of their estate?

HMG, IMHO, is going to have to accept much of the loss here. I'm not even sure if the can blame Paymaster as the screw up (and presumably the methods of assessing payments) started well before the task was outsourced to them. The article suggests that Vance Cable was tipped off by the company itself.

As Markintime mentioned NHS staff are far too litigious and I'd go further and say most people are prepared to be now. Can you imagine the lawyers licking their lips over this one?
 
#20
" .. Cable's disclosure ..... for the sake of political expediancy .."

What a shocker!! As if this governement would ever do anything for political expediancy. Burying bad news anyone, announcing troop withdrawals, selectively quoting statistics, doctoring security reports. What a hypocritical bunch of tw*ts.

Hello kettle... this is pot calling
 

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