Discussion in 'Int Corps' started by wingedmonkey, Apr 16, 2006.

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  1. D-INT have decided to scrap the A2, Sorry OPMI(2)!!! I know it is the biggest piss up since Oliver Reed got killed by those matlows in Malta, but what do people think about the operational impact/quality of soldiers? LCpls will now get their promotion to Cpl on the recomendation of the OC.
  2. It was a load of crap anyway. Waste of time - going all the way back to sh1tty Chicksand to pi55 about learning ANOTHER load of crap u never use in your unit....

    Problem we have is there are some many different jobs, how do even begin to design a course to prepare u for any of them unless u know which posting your going to or your doing IMINT or something specialised?

    I utilised exactly zero percent of A3 training...
  3. Where's your int coming from?!

    Do you mean to say that LCpls will no longer board? I can see why they would do it, but on the flipside I can forsee a neverending number of problems with it. And yes, the A2 was a bit of a joke from the COIN / Sy side - The Sy was bollerks and the COIN stuff could easily be implemented into the A3. The other bits though were ok.. probably about right in time career wise. Hmm.. Will be very interested to see how this pans out.
  4. Everyone needs a recommendation for promotion from their OC, see para 10 AF B2047 or para 12 AF B2048.
  5. I was granted my A2 in '88 for giving 40 mins on Dessie O'Hare and other OTR players. Very light-hearted stuff that didn't prove anything. About the same time the great Gods in the sky started getting p1ssed about the Int Corps handing out qualifications that other Arms and Corps had to work hard for and decreed that the hand-out should end. So it was that in Apr 90 found myself back at Templer with a huge number of great guys to do an 8 week A2, despite all of us already being paid for it.

    Personally speaking there were no negatives to this! I met a load of guys in the Corps that I would not otherwise have met. My trade skills were polished up in a measurable and timely fashion (just in time for me to deploy to Granby), and the weather was cracking in the evenings. Everyone else appeared to take the same view.

    I wonder if this decision, if it is indeed true, has anything to do with the thread I read elsewhere that the Corps is looking to flesh out the nunbers of Int Corps at SNCO level. Every LCpl having to go through A2 at base would certainly slow that process down! Just being cynical I guess?
  6. The problem with putting COIN on the OPMI 3 is the training objectives dictated by LAND - Via TDT. They will get boarded, but rather than the board looking at an OPMI 2 'tick in the box', there will be an OC/Section recommendation - nothing concrete. A soldier may -potentially not come back to Chicksands until his OPMI 1 Forum as an acting Sgt. - skill fade anyone?
  7. Yes, i know. But at the moment they ALSO need to have completed the OPMI 2, proving their competency at their profession (at least on paper)! to a level above that of a phase 2 trainee.
  8. well it isnt going to be scrapped until everyone going through 184 has been they are redesigning the course and it will only apply to those after 184 according to Templer sources.

    It is a massive pissup, if you have even an ounce of talent. However some saddos seem to spend their time either revising (WTF!) or playing computer games. Personally I found nothing hard, except perhaps the IT Sy practitioners test...but only because I was more interested in not throwing up after a good night on the p1ss. I passed all four elements without breaking into a sweat as did a fair handful...but some were utter dogshite. And some of thse who started to realise it either then made no contribution, or started being a bit smart arsey in the lessons. C0CKS.

    You get to meet old friends, and make new acquaintances...and that could be handy in years to come. Shefford curryhouses alone are worth it!

    COIN going on OPMI3 could easily be achieved, some of those coming out of the factory now, cant even fill in a 102, whats the point? Something else to pass and then forget.

    You will in future be assessed by OC/WO2 on the job. Hmm, I wonder exactly what the on the job training, and assessment will be like for those with tits?!

    Having seen some of the so-called stars and future flyers of the Corps on my OPMI2, I really wonder about the judgement of certain OCs. Some fools could barely deliver a 20min brief yet had AY on their CR and were/are being pushed for promotion to full screw. They would have no credibility at this rank whatsoever IMO, but undoubtedly will come off the board.

    Joke. Being at the right section with an OC you can ass suck, will be the OPMI2 of the future !!!
  9. maybe they should keep it but also incorporate a CFT and BPFA and see who gets good course reports!
  10. In 1976 a decision was taken to run the A2 as a correspondance course. Being in an isolated 2 man det my regret was not being able to get back to depot for a few weeks on the pop with my contemporaries.

    My WO2 at the time, tells another tale of how hard the Corps fought to get awayy from B1 Combat Int and B1 CI on the 1950's and 60s. The upshot of the decision to dispense with A2 was that the Army decided that as there was no formal course of instruction, OP MI ( then Op Int + Sy) did not warrant A pay band status and a large number of JNCOs took a pay cut.

    This happened again, in the 1980's, I only hope that my chums in the Directorate have got their ducks in a row this time. To do this four times in as many decades would smack of rank stupidity.

    I have argued with others, ( was it you Op Int + Sy?) that an understanding of the principles of Int is vital to the development of a well rounded int or CI analyst. An A2 course should re-validate that understanding and stretch students a bit further. This might then enable them to convince their E2 Staff officers what is the right way to manage the commander's int requirments, instead of only being able to whinge about it round here.

    Even if the Bde or Directorate were to get a Unicom printout of, ATDs completed by prospective students, prior to each course, I would still suggest that ODH's suggestion below would help to keep some perspective in standards within the JNCO cadre in the Corps :wink:

  11. Sub:In 1976 a decision was taken to run the A2 as a correspondance course. Being in an isolated 2 man det my regret was not being able to get back to depot for a few weeks on the pop with my contemporaries.
    Wasn't it decided a little earlier than that? I found myself doing a grand letrasetted project on 3 Shock Army for it. This was a decidely unwelcome diversion whilst trying to both instruct the Jamaican Defence Force in mapreading and fit into a few fit Jamaicans of a spare evening in '76.

    ODH: You will in future be assessed by OC/WO2 on the job. Hmm, I wonder exactly what the on the job training, and assessment will be like for those with tits?!
    What you really, really need at that stage is the fully objective assessments of either of those two gentlemen/women, both of whom you are likely to have crossed/shagged/loathed/married/ whatever. Far better to have their considered input to a board of trained trainers, I should have thought. It all sounds like a bad move to me.
  12. :evil: This kind of thing really p1sses me off! It just brings it all back to being some kind of kiss arrse to get on and whether you are actually capable of doing the job won't come into question. What exactly does the CR tell anyone apart from that you get on with your reporting Officers or you don't???? On my CRs so far I have been in contact with the person writing it for maybe three weeks out of that reporting year max. This is probably why I haven't had any major dramas yet but you will get some spineless people who won't write that people are sh*t even when they know they are or worse cut and paste from a generic report. Great when you get things like: -

    "Pte X has played for the female corps football team during this reporting year...

    ...his trade skills are developing well for his first posting..."

    However on the flip side when you have a look at all your oppo's course reports (as happened on my A2) and they are all much of a muchness the same then it's not going to make a difference anyway whether you attend a course like the A2 or just get promoted off a CR.

    RANT: We as a Corps and maybe the rest of the Army needs to move away from a CR system that is based on opinions to one based more on credible proof of your ability to do the job and be fit to wear the Queen's Uniform (not her personal attire though)! I know this is slightly on a tangent but the more they chip away at things the more they will open the floodgates for idiots and halfwits who we will have to supervise and redo their work (as well as our own) because they can't even wipe their own arses without f*cking it up :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: RANT ENDS.
  13. Watch this space! :x
  14. Agreed about the COIN phase actually. Looking back I think that the experience gained on a first tour actually helps you put COIN Ops into perspective a bit more.. especially as most new students out of Chicksands are now almost guaranteed a sandpit tour in one of the two.

    You say the board looks at the A2 tickin the box?! Hang on.. I might have the wrong end of the stick here, but do you mean to say the board promotes people on the strength of the fact they are A2 qualified? And then more that the board doesnt look at the reccomendation that is on the CR at the moment? I can understand the latter part, most board members learned to pretty much ignore the actual grading a long time ago.. a soldier could perform exactly the same in two different units and go from an A to a C in each. The gradings themselves are susceptible (actually more than that) to personality of the heirachy the soldier is working for. What isn't quite as easy to swing is the Part 1 and Part 2 write-ups. As it satnds at the moment, unless you have a reccomendation on your CR, you will not even board. That's what the filter boards are for - AFAIK you need that Y on your CR or your report wont even get looked at by the main board. From there in I am sure it helps to be prequalified with the A2 for promotion but by no means at all essential. Countless people get recommended for promotion before they hit the A2 and then have that promotion year to get the qual. Until they do they can only be given acting rank (along with this newfangled CLM thing!) If I've got the wrong end of the stick, I must apologise - but I am pretty sure what I have said is fact.

    This being the case - what does the abolishment of the A2 mean? Well I'd be surprised if it wasnt replaced by something.. Or do you mean that they will become class 2 qualified on recommendation of their OCs akin to the system employed by IS Engr trades in the R Sigs? I can see why they'd want to do it that way but there really are some elements of the A2 that while yes are part of a big pi55 up, they still are taught for a reason. The COIN / Tactical Debriefing / etc parts of the course I have found useful (I am sure some other have too). Some argue that they have never used any of their training - this may be the case for their first or even second postings but I'd be surprised if in todays operational environment.

    On a slight tangent I think it would be a good shift to see them changing the combat int phase of the A3 to more of a COIN emphasis. Anyone been on a tour where they used GENFORCE in the past say, 10 years, or more?! The way the world is today, we'll be doing COIN Ops for a while to come - maybe it's time to teach that first and leave the Vanguards and CRPs to the A2 or whatever they have instead?

    Oo look at that.. I've typed up a whole load of stuff and completely lost myself!! 8O Well take what you need. :D
  15. I can see where you're coming from mate - I have questioned the validity of many a CR, both my own and others. I remember a Part 2 of mine a few years back the literally had 2 sentences in it. However, look at the flipside again.. I can't honestly think of a fairer system. Yes the current one has it's flaws - doesnt everything?!