Scrap Red Arrows

#1
Scrap Red Arrows, says Plaid Cymru MP Jonathan Edwards Jonathan Edwards MP said the Red Arrows' £8.8m budget could be 'put to better use' An MP has called for the Red Arrows air display team to be disbanded and money spent instead on equipment for troops.

Jonathan Edwards, Plaid Cymru MP for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr, said the RAF unit cost taxpayers £8.8m a year.

He said: "Personally I think it is money that could be put to better use."

A spokesman for the RAF in Wales said the Red Arrows were a "flag-waver" and no comment could be made until the outcome of the ongoing defence review.

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Fault grounds RAF Hawks at bases Red Arrows present female pilot After asking a parliamentary question, Mr Edwards was told the Red Arrows provide "no direct operational role".

Plaid Cymru put in a Freedom of Information request to discover the display team's running costs.

Mr Edwards said: "We have to get realistic about public expenditure. I find the priorities of this government totally bizarre.

"I fail to see how cutting front line service, for example the £34m that is being cut from Dyfed-Powys Police Authority which represents my constituency, can be done when millions is wasted elsewhere.

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RED ARROWS 2009/10
Pilots/technicians: £4.6m Aviation, fuel: £1.2m Dye: £400,000 Maintenance: £2.6m Total: £8.8m SOURCE: Plaid Cymru Freedom of Information request
"I for one would rather see public money used to ensure that police remain on the beat."

He added that he failed to see why the Red Arrows should be excluded from the debate about public service cuts when "the Welsh budget is itself suffering a £162.5m hit".

The Red Arrows, based at Scampton in Lincolnshire, use Hawk T1 jets, the RAF's advanced trainer.

Advanced pilot training using Hawks is carried out at RAF Valley on Anglesey.

The base's No 4 Flying Training School operates about 70 Hawks.

A spokesman for the RAF in Wales said: "There will be speculation about display teams.

'Thousands cheered'

"We're in no position to comment at the moment, there are too many things being reviewed."

He said the Red Arrows were "of great value to the armed forces and British industry".

"We will have to wait until the government's strategic defence review is published. Then we will have a better vision of what the MoD has in mind."

The spokesman said thousands of people cheered when the Red Arrows performed at Rhyl on Sunday.

The Red Arrows have held more than 4,000 displays in 53 countries since being formed in 1965.



BBC News - Scrap Red Arrows, says Plaid Cymru MP Jonathan Edwards
 
#2
Another left wing nutter sticks his head above the parapet!

Aircraft and Drone Testing

"I am opposed to the proposed land air corridor for drone aircraft testing. I am opposed to drone military technology on humanitarian grounds following their use by the Israeli Defence Force in Gaza; and by the USA in Afghanistan.

I am also concerned for the civil liberties and privacy of the people of Carmarthenshire as a result of the land based air corridors. During testing these drones will be able to circle homes and take high resolution photographs of people going about their daily business."
 
#3
Don't those figures ignore the income they bring in?
 
#4
Don't the Red Arrows attract more in fees than they cost defence in the average year?

Agreed, the Welsh bloke sounds like an idiot and a UAV should be sent to orbit his house at a height of two hundred feet just to piss him off.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
As I said on another thread, £8.8m is bugger all in terms of govt expenditure, but given the fact that the Arrows have "no direct operational role", he might well have a point.
 
#6
YAWWWWNNNN ... the Reds have been on the LTC as a saving since most of you were at school. They realistically cost peanuts, and 'earn' more than they cost.

The white socks are now a NSN item, BTW. ;-)
 
#7
Don't those figures ignore the income they bring in?
Yes, but the problem is that a lot of the good the Red Arrows do can't be costed directly. Not having them is a bit like serving tesco wine at an ambassadorial reception instead of champagne. Is it a good idea? Likely not. Can you put a price tag on how bad an idea it is? Also likely not.
 
#8
BTW, how much do those pretty people with Field Guns and all those horses cost?

At least the Reds have a hint of operational relevance ... instead of pure, undiluted, ceremonial with no current military relevance whatsoever!

Not wishing to start a ruck, of course, as Crab-bashing is a Seasonal Sport :-D
 
#9
could always send them to Afghanistan in the winter when they can't display here or would that be a bit like putting the Harlem Globetrotters into the NBA?
 
#10
Scruffy **** can't even be bothered to do his tie up properly on his web page phot
 
#11
Winter time is when they train and develop new displays, I also assume that they are out of flying hours on whatever airframe they left to join the Reds and would therefore have to spend that winter getting back up to speed. It's really only relevant to the ones that came from GR4 as well anyway as both Harrier and Typhoon aren't used in Theatre at all at the moment as far as I know, with the Typhoon only being used for QRA in FI.
 
#12
Don't the Red Arrows attract more in fees than they cost defence in the average year?

Agreed, the Welsh bloke sounds like an idiot and a UAV should be sent to orbit his house at a height of two hundred feet just to piss him off.

A chinook at about 50ft would be far far more effective in pis*ing him off... and blowing all the slates off the roof too :)
 
#13
Kit them out in black shiny typhoons for one season then publically execute them. Obnoxious pack of cnuts....... would be fantastic in a proper aircraft though.
 
#14
could always send them to Afghanistan in the winter when they can't display here or would that be a bit like putting the Harlem Globetrotters into the NBA?
Bit of Operational Support for 'Stan available too.
King's Troop, Royal Horse Artillery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The King's Troop, Royal Horse Artillery is a ceremonial unit of the British Army. It is a mounted unit and all of its soldiers are superb equestrians trained to drive a team of six horses that pull the First World War-era 13-pounder state saluting guns.
How much do they cost? Fair question, surely?
 
#15
Kit them out in black shiny typhoons for one season then publically execute them. Obnoxious pack of cnuts....... would be fantastic in a proper aircraft though.
On my limited acquaintance, I agree with you ;-)
Formation drinking and totty-hunting.

An AAC Formation Apache team, shooting sh1t out of static targets wearing head-bandages and burkhas would be a crowd-pleaser at air-shows. Sadly no role for GPMG willy-waving, though.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
A troop of horse drawn 13Lbdrs would be of more benefit in Afghan than a flight of unarmed Hawks. (Apart from the train required to feed and water the horses and ensure that there was an adequate supply of 13Lb shells).
 
#17
A troop of horse drawn 13Lbdrs would be of more benefit in Afghan than a flight of unarmed Hawks. (Apart from the train required to feed and water the horses and ensure that there was an adequate supply of 13Lb shells).
Indeed .... but HMG, in its wisdom, employs them as a purely ceremonial unit. I personally doubt that that 13 L/Bdrs would worry the Talib anyway. BTW, how much does it cost to support 111 horses for ceremonial duties?

Switch target ... Royal Navy. Oh, hang on, they don't display anything these days, do they?

Bugger ... OK, Reds v. Kings' Troop ... go on.
 
#18
#19
Mr Edwards
"I am opposed ............"
He may well be opposed but he is there to represent his constituents. I wonder if he cares what they want or if it is all about him. Let's see .... 4 x Looking at his bio, another student to politics underachiever.

After completing his academic studies, Jonathan worked as Chief of staff for Rhodri Glyn Thomas AM and Adam Price MP for 7 years, where he led on political matters for both elected members. He has a wide understanding of Parliamentary and National Assembly politics.
Chief of Staff. How civvies - especially politicians- love to ape the military.
 
#20
Who for. The MOD, or BREITLING. Purveyors of hugely overpriced time pieces endorsed by the RAF/MOD/Red Arrows franchise. If you’re interested (a) be selected for a three year tour of duty with the Royal Air Force Aerobatic Display Team (and receive a complimentary watch) or (b) have in excess of £2,000 disposable income available.
That is so GROSS that it could only be worn by a Red or Naomi Campbell.
What does the RHA one look like?
 

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