Scousers left to suck it up and admit they were wrong?

ugly

LE
Moderator
#1
Hillsborough documents blame fans - Yahoo! News UK
..Former prime minister Margaret Thatcher was told that a senior Merseyside Police officer blamed "drunken Liverpool fans" for the 1989 Hillsborough football stadium disaster, according to leaked government papers.

The documents show that four days after the tragedy, a member of Mrs Thatcher's No 10 policy unit met senior Merseyside officers who told her large numbers of Liverpool fans turning up without tickets had been a "key factor" in what happened.

Ninety-six fans died following a crush on the overcrowded terraces at the stadium in Sheffield where Liverpool were due to play an FA Cup semi-final match in April 1989.

There was deep anger in the city after South Yorkshire Police, who were responsible for policing the game, blamed Liverpool fans who turned up drunk, late, and without tickets, for what happened.

However, the papers, obtained by BBC Radio 4's The World At One, suggest that view was shared by their colleagues on Merseyside itself.

They include a note addressed to Mrs Thatcher dated April 20 1989 headed "Merseyside Police views on Hillsborough" and marked "Confidential".

It contains an account of what was said to be a long-planned meeting between the No 10 adviser and the then Merseyside chief constable Sir Kenneth Oxford and other senior officers from the force.

According to the note, Sir Kenneth said: "A key factor in causing the disaster was the fact that large numbers of Liverpool fans had turned up without tickets. This was getting lost sight of in attempts to blame the police, the football authorities, etc."

Another officer - who was not named - was said to have directly blamed the supporters. "One officer, born and bred in Liverpool, said that he was deeply ashamed to say that it was drunken Liverpool fans who had caused this disaster, just as they had caused the deaths at Heysel," the note said. Thirty-nine people had died at the Heysel stadium in Belgium when rioting Liverpool supporters charged Juventus fans before the 1985 European Cup final.

Sir Kenneth, who died in 1998, was also said to have expressed concern at the way Liverpool's ground at Anfield had been turned into a "shrine" by grieving fans. "He deplored the press's morbid concentration on pictures of bodies. He was also uneasy about the way in which Anfield was being turned into a shrine," the note said.

..

So all those years of grief whoring paying off are they? Prefer not to have a public enquiry where your own do you down?
Come to Liverpool grief capital of the world!
 
P

PrinceAlbert

Guest
#2
How can it be anyone BUT the fans fault? If they all stood still, then there would be no crushing. It's hardly rocket science.
 
#4
It was the fault of the Police. That has been proved conclusively.
Can you show me the footage of the police stood at the back pushing forward please?

The simply fact of the matter is that there was a crush because there were more 'fans' in that stand than had tickets.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#6
beg your pardon muddlemaker, read the news release. yes plod were partly to blame but if the drunken fans hadnt forced the gates then it wouldnt have happened!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#9
If there is a bandwagon to slag off authority especially plod I am usually the first to consider jumping on it, however this has reinforced my view at the time that the only people to blame were the fans without tickets and possibly the plod for not beating them senseless instead of allowing them to charge the gates and kill the innocent fans who had bought tickets!
Nothing like a bit of home grown shame to get a smokescreen of indignation up and running!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#11
No grounds are great for away fans, thats the point, to be honest if you are a footy fan the fact that fans can still travel away is a mark of tolerance by society and those we ellect to set laws to protect us from cnuts in the away end who want to kill one another and then spend 30 years claiming it was a cover up!
 
#12
speaking as someone who took par.... witnessed first hand the rioting in Manchester in 2008 i know its usually a cop out on the behalf of the organising and policing authorities to simply blame thousands of completely smashed football fans who turn up without tickets.

on that occaision the trouble clearly occurred because there werent enough portaloos.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#14
If there is a bandwagon to slag off authority especially plod I am usually the first to consider jumping on it, however this has reinforced my view at the time that the only people to blame were the fans without tickets and possibly the plod for not beating them senseless instead of allowing them to charge the gates and kill the innocent fans who had bought tickets!
Nothing like a bit of home grown shame to get a smokescreen of indignation up and running!
The only reason that the coppers who tried to claim after the event weren't allowed their claim is that the court foresaw a massive claim being put in by Scousers who weren't there, but who watched in on TV...true dat! eh?
 
#15
If there is a bandwagon to slag off authority especially plod I am usually the first to consider jumping on it, however this has reinforced my view at the time that the only people to blame were the fans without tickets and possibly the plod for not beating them senseless instead of allowing them to charge the gates and kill the innocent fans who had bought tickets!
Nothing like a bit of home grown shame to get a smokescreen of indignation up and running!
You should have mentioned your opinion to the enquiry at the time, they obviously got it wrong when they said it wasn't down to the fans.
 
#16
No, the exit gate was opened by the police.
Fans without tickets turned up and forced their way in cos they wanted to watch the game without paying.

If there hadnt have been there, there wouldnt have been a crush and the decent fans who paid to watch a match would be alive today.

The police made mistakes but saying it was all their fault is utter rubbish.
 
#17
Seems like a fair cop to me. At most a hundred coppers in and around the ground. Several thousand pissed up Scousers turn up and decide they want in.

Police are forced to open a gate because firstly, the people at the gate were being crushed by the people behind and secondly, the gate was going to go anyway so they had to release the pressure.

Several thousand folk surge through the openning, relieveing the immediate crush and probably saving lives there and then, but, because of poor stand design (barriers to prevent pitch invasion), forced thanks to twats rioting and invading pitches in previous years, those already in the stands had no where to go.

Watch the videos on YouTube and the like. I was amazed the Police where ever implicated.
 
#18
i
Several thousand folk surge through the openning, relieveing the immediate crush and probably saving lives there and then, but, because of poor stand design (barriers to prevent pitch invasion), forced thanks to twats rioting and invading pitches in previous years, those already in the stands had no where to go.
Those barriers were an accident waiting to happen. If it hadnt been for Heysel they wouldnt have been in place on the day.

Who was responsible for Heysel? That must be the police as well.
 
#19
Fans without tickets turned up and forced their way in cos they wanted to watch the game without paying.

If there hadnt have been there, there wouldnt have been a crush and the decent fans who paid to watch a match would be alive today.

The police made mistakes but saying it was all their fault is utter rubbish.
Tickletless fans weren't a factor in the causes of the disaster - a fact confirmed by the inquiry. A complete failure in policing by a commanding officer with no experience of large sporting events and not following the same procedures as they had the year before when the same two teams played the same game in the same stadium (which didn't even have a valid safety certificate) caused the disaster.

No-one forced a gate - Exit Gate C (from memory) was opened by police to relieve pressure from a huge buildup of fans outside the stadium (another thing the Leppings Lane End was known for at the time - the turnstiles were old and couldn't cope with build ups of fans). Some fans were late - this was due in a large part to a crash on the M62 which badly delayed traffic from Merseyside. The crowd control measures in place the year before which had been effective in controlling the crowd build up weren't in place and there was a further complete failure of police control once the disaster started which meant that only one ambulance ever made it onto the pitch to get injured fans away while untrained fans and policemen were left trying to treat the injured.

Hillsborough was known as an accident waiting to happen for years - something similar almost happened at a Spurs vs Wolves FA Semi in 1981 and was ignored because football in the 1980s was, as a whole, a collection of crumbling badly designed stadia waiting for a disaster waiting to happen.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#20
If we have had an enquiry which exonerated the fans as you claim then why 30 years of grief wwhoring whining scousers determined to blame the police calling for an enquiry? Perhaps they want money for being cnuts? Perhaps they really know the truth and want the ticketless cnuts hung out to dry? Either way someone and possibly everyone involved will be made very unhappy. I for one will get some popcorn in!
 

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