Scottish Train Derail

It's all right, the Arrse Accident Investigation Branch can stand down. According to David Shukman on the BBC's web-site, the cause of the accident is.......climate change!! CA rules prevent me from saying something naughty.
Was St Greta invoked by any chance?
 
Is network rail national or devolved?

There are a lot of accusations and finger pointing. I’m guessing this will lead to an enquiry and wondering at what level it will be.
Rail regulation is not devolved. When it comes to transport policy and funding it's a lot more complicated, but the rules, regs oversight by HMRI and investigation by RAIB are all national issues and not devolved.
 
It's all right, the Arrse Accident Investigation Branch can stand down. According to David Shukman on the BBC's web-site, the cause of the accident is.......climate change!! CA rules prevent me from saying something naughty.
Here is his text with my comments in brackets (for the little that's worth)
It's long been recognised that landslips are one of the greatest risks to Britain's railways and that a changing climate will make them more likely. (Depends how the climate changes - do we have records from that area? He hasn't said it was the cause yet)

Heatwaves and droughts can dry out the steep embankments beside the tracks, and over the years will start to weaken them. (Fair point but he doesn't know this was a factor in this case so hasn't said so. He just said it can happen but a lot of people will think he is saying it did happen)

Add to that the effects of heavy rain, of the kind seen just now in Scotland, saturating and eroding the soil, and undermining its strength. (Yes that does happen. Deluges do occur and have in the past. There has been some scientific consensus going back years that more extreme events could be expected in the future. Could global warming case more events of a more extreme nature? Yes it could. Was it a factor in this case? No idea).

And with rising global temperatures set to bring extremes of weather never anticipated by the Victorian engineers who built the lines, Network Rail has been studying how best to keep the tracks safe. (I don't think Stonehaven was experiencing anything like the same sort of heat as London and the South East this week. The energy in the storm and the amount of water vapour it was carrying could well have been greater due to the moist warm air it had picked up on the way North - perhaps a physicist can answer that).

But it admits that "we know we can't rebuild every mile of railway".

(From that, it's hard to say he has said anything completely wrong as he hasn't made the claim that these were definitely factors or that it was climate change what done it. Rain was obviously a factor. Could it lead the reader to think climate change was to blame? Evidently).
 
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Should this accident have been avoided?

Could this accident be avoided?
 
Here is his text with my comments in brackets (for the little that's worth)
It's long been recognised that landslips are one of the greatest risks to Britain's railways and that a changing climate will make them more likely. (Depends how the climate changes - do we have records from that area? He hasn't said it was the cause yet)

Heatwaves and droughts can dry out the steep embankments beside the tracks, and over the years will start to weaken them. (Fair point but he doesn't know this was a factor in this case so hasn't said so. He just said it can happen but a lot of people will think he is saying it did happen)

Add to that the effects of heavy rain, of the kind seen just now in Scotland, saturating and eroding the soil, and undermining its strength. (Yes that does happen. Deluges do occur and have in the past. There has been some scientific consensus going back years that more extreme events could be expected in the future. Could global warming case more events of a more extreme nature? Yes it could. Was it a factor in this case? No idea).

And with rising global temperatures set to bring extremes of weather never anticipated by the Victorian engineers who built the lines, Network Rail has been studying how best to keep the tracks safe. (I don't think Stonehaven was experiencing anything like the same sort of heat as London and the South East this week. The energy in the storm and the amount of water vapour it was carrying could well have been greater due to the moist warm air it had picked up on the way North - perhaps a physicist can answer that).

But it admits that "we know we can't rebuild every mile of railway".

From that, it's hard to say he has said anything completely wrong as he hasn't made the claim that these were definitely factors or that it was climate change what done it. Rain was obviously a factor. Could it lead the reader to think climate change was to blame? Evidently.

Climate change is certainly one of the BBC's hobby horses. I'm surprised David Shukman didn't manage to drag in Black Lives Matter, LGBTXYZ, Brexit and Tory horridness as well.....
 
If the reports of 1 driver, 3 crew and 6 pax are to be believed, that's a huge amount of moving parts just to get 6 bods to work.
Likely another factor challenging the economics of rail in such areas.

Many rail services have to run by law, regardless of how many are on them.
 
Heatwaves and droughts can dry out the steep embankments beside the tracks, and over the years will start to weaken them. (Fair point but he doesn't know this was a factor in this case so hasn't said so. He just said it can happen but a lot of people will think he is saying it did happen)

Add to that the effects of heavy rain, of the kind seen just now in Scotland, saturating and eroding the soil, and undermining its strength. (Yes that does happen. Deluges do occur and have in the past....)
Heavy rainfall caused the collapse of embankments and similiar in Thomas the Tank Engine in stories written in the early 1950s. Bearing in mind that Rev Awdry based his early stories on real events and had no idea what climate change was, I rather suspect that Mr Shukman might be over-thinking this just a bit...
 
Heavy rainfall caused the collapse of embankments and similiar in Thomas the Tank Engine in stories written in the early 1950s. Bearing in mind that Rev Awdry based his early stories on real events and had no idea what climate change was, I rather suspect that Mr Shukman might be over-thinking this just a bit...
'kof'
Railway Children
'kof'
 
Heavy rainfall caused the collapse of embankments and similiar in Thomas the Tank Engine in stories written in the early 1950s. Bearing in mind that Rev Awdry based his early stories on real events and had no idea what climate change was, I rather suspect that Mr Shukman might be over-thinking this just a bit...
It's the Rail Regulator, and Network Rail themselves, who have been stating that the railway has been affected by an increasing number of weather related incidents while overall safety has increased.
 
Which is what I said.... the crash site is about a mile from the crossover so the train wouldn’t have been at full line speed there.
It may well have been close to the 75mph max if it was a level or falling grade. Those power cars with only 4 trucks are like warm kak off a chrome shovel. Lightly loaded with pax too.
 
It's the Rail Regulator, and Network Rail themselves, who have been stating that the railway has been affected by an increasing number of weather related incidents while overall safety has increased.
Fair enough, but climate does not equal weather. Climate change may increase risks of extreme weather, but it is fallacious to then assume that extreme weather incidents are directly caused by climate change. And that is before one gets on to the question of whether climate change is the fault of capitalism...
 

Jonnynoname

War Hero
RIP the driver :-(

It seems the train left from Stonehaven, encountered the first landslide and decided to turn back. That means the landslip (Mirror reporting train slipping down embankment on return) must have occurred after the first pass and not overnight. There was no way he could have known about the slip happening behind him before he attempted the return journey. A very cruel twist of fate and so close to Stonehaven.

Updates from the Mirror

View attachment 496489
ETA

View attachment 496494
Train derails with 'one dead' and serious injuries - all you need to know

(Edited to remove reference to bridge that had been alluded to)
Sounds like The Driver did all He could. RIP
 
Heavy rainfall caused the collapse of embankments and similiar in Thomas the Tank Engine in stories written in the early 1950s. Bearing in mind that Rev Awdry based his early stories on real events and had no idea what climate change was, I rather suspect that Mr Shukman might be over-thinking this just a bit...
Mr Shukman's contribution has now been removed from the article on the BBC's web-site.
 
Many rail services have to run by law, regardless of how many are on them.
There are mandated trains that TOCs have to run. Have a look at "Parliamentary Trains", also called Ghost Trains.


 
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It's all right, the Arrse Accident Investigation Branch can stand down. According to David Shukman on the BBC's web-site, the cause of the accident is.......climate change!! CA rules prevent me from saying something naughty.
I'm just surprised wee nippy hasn't claimed that the train wouldn't have derailed if only Scotland had independence
 

Dredd

LE
Rail regulation is not devolved. When it comes to transport policy and funding it's a lot more complicated, but the rules, regs oversight by HMRI and investigation by RAIB are all national issues and not devolved.
Despite the YesNP efforts to have the BTP transferred to Police Scotland.

Thankfully, it fell through when it was pointed out that there would be no benefit, only negatives and called it for what it was - a separatist vanity project.
 
There's not much that will reduce me to tears, but that footage has.
Those pictures brought brought back memories of the train accident I was sent to when I was a young airman. It was the first time I had seen the innards of the human body and it wasn't a pretty sight. Thoughts with the rescuers and the folks who have to pick up the pieces.
 

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