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Scottish Train Derail

Looking at the state of the wreckage, it seems that the train was going at a reasonable lick. According to the circumstances that have emerged so far, there are one or two points that need clarifying.

Presumably the train was a multiple unit (a control cab at each end) rather than a loco hauled train, which enabled the driver to change ends when he came across the first landslip and drive back towards Stonehaven.

He would have had to contact his controller to alert them of the situation and to receive clearance to reverse 'wrong line' back to Stonehaven.

Nevertheless, under those circumstances, he would have been operating under strict 'wrong line' rules that are stiff with restrictions and the permitted operating speed would have been a very slow crawl.

I daresay it'll all come out in the wash.

PS: Anyone want to start an ARRSE Rail Accident Investigation Team?
It appears to have been a 125 and yes, usually there is a loco / power car at each end.
1597237981978.png


Hours-long gap between rail derailment and emergency call - reports
Emergency calls were made hours after the derailed train is believed to have gone off the tracks.

However there are varying reports on whether the train derailed shortly after the 20-minute journey between Aberdeen and Stonehaven around 7am, or closer to 9.43pm when emergency services were called.

Train derails with 'two dead' and serious injuries - all you need to know
 
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Has Wee Mrs Krankie blamed Westminster yet?
She will be miffed that a Tory MP and Tory Minister were out there before her.

Also, I note that the Beeb have just had an utterly pointless interview with "the SNP MP for Aberdeenshire" from her car, who obviously has nothing to add, and no real knowledge, without acknowledging that this seems to have happened on the Conservative MP's patch.

I wonder if they will have to ask for MACA support from the RE to facilitate recovery of the train, given how stuck it seems to be? I mean to allow lifting gear to get close enough...
 
Looking at the state of the wreckage, it seems that the train was going at a reasonable lick. According to the circumstances that have emerged so far, there are one or two points that need clarifying.

Presumably the train was a multiple unit (a control cab at each end) rather than a loco hauled train, which enabled the driver to change ends when he came across the first landslip and drive back towards Stonehaven.

He would have had to contact his controller to alert them of the situation and to receive clearance to reverse 'wrong line' back to Stonehaven.

Nevertheless, under those circumstances, he would have been operating under strict 'wrong line' rules that are stiff with restrictions and the permitted operating speed would have been a very slow crawl.

I daresay it'll all come out in the wash.

PS: Anyone want to start an ARRSE Rail Accident Investigation Team?
20200812_131820.jpg

Thats a Class 43 (aka HST 125) power car on its side and burning.
 
The impression I got was that the Incident was in the Carmont area. Not sure why Aberdeen to Stonehaven section is referenced in some reports. Update from Mirror

1597239142568.png
 

Dredd

LE
The impression I got was that the Incident was in the Carmont area. Not sure why Aberdeen to Stonehaven section is referenced in some reports.

Journalistic license - for recognition factor mainly.

But I agree, it is inaccurate. Location is west of Stonehaven, not north. Next stop would have been Montrose (if it did not stop at Laurencekirk).
 
It was like the four horsemen here last night. The road outside my gaff has a massive big cutting grooved out from all the rainfall. Never seen so much lightening or heard so much thunder in this part of Scotland before. Hoping for the best for the poor buggers on that train.

I’m just south of Stonehaven (Inverbervie) and the rain was indeed biblical. Sounded like a tropical monsoon.

This morning the bay is completely brown from soil washed down the river. Niece and Nephew are going down to check the river basin later. It may have moved a bit
 
Makes you wonder if, on lines where the forward visibility is less than the stopping distance of the train they shouldn't send out an aircraft of some sort in remote areas, to check for obstructions on the line after bad weather. A hired-in UAV would be fairly cheap and quick.
They already do use helicopters and drones to a certain extent, as well as large use of track-workers on site at known blackspots, but a general blanket rule would cause massive delay every time there was a bit of bad weather. Better to caution trains during extreme weather, as we do now (see the rules quoted below).

Looking at the state of the wreckage, it seems that the train was going at a reasonable lick. According to the circumstances that have emerged so far, there are one or two points that need clarifying.

Presumably the train was a multiple unit (a control cab at each end) rather than a loco hauled train, which enabled the driver to change ends when he came across the first landslip and drive back towards Stonehaven.

He would have had to contact his controller to alert them of the situation and to receive clearance to reverse 'wrong line' back to Stonehaven.

Nevertheless, under those circumstances, he would have been operating under strict 'wrong line' rules that are stiff with restrictions and the permitted operating speed would have been a very slow crawl.

I daresay it'll all come out in the wash.

PS: Anyone want to start an ARRSE Rail Accident Investigation Team?
He won't necessarily be travelling 'at a crawl'. He will also be travelling at Caution, which invokes this rule:

"If instructed to proceed at caution, you must, as well as not exceeding any specified speed, proceed at a speed which takes account of conditions (such as the distance you can see to be clear), that will allow you to stop the train short of any train, vehicle or other obstruction, or the end of your movement authority. "

The relevant rulebook module is this one: https://catalogues.rssb.co.uk/rgs/rulebooks/GERT8000-TW7 Iss 7.pdf

Rule TW7 4.3 is very specific:

"4.3 Train speed Except during single line working, you must always be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear. "

He might have been able to cross over via points, in which case he'd be running right-direction at full line-speed.

As you say, it'll come out in the wash. The RAIB is very good at what it does. There will probably be an initial assessment of the circumstances pushed out to Network Rail and TOCs, so that the immediate lessons and actions arising can be implemented, so we should have some idea of what happened within a few days or weeks.
 
Looking at the state of the wreckage, it seems that the train was going at a reasonable lick. According to the circumstances that have emerged so far, there are one or two points that need clarifying.

Presumably the train was a multiple unit (a control cab at each end) rather than a loco hauled train, which enabled the driver to change ends when he came across the first landslip and drive back towards Stonehaven.

He would have had to contact his controller to alert them of the situation and to receive clearance to reverse 'wrong line' back to Stonehaven.

Nevertheless, under those circumstances, he would have been operating under strict 'wrong line' rules that are stiff with restrictions and the permitted operating speed would have been a very slow crawl.

I daresay it'll all come out in the wash.

PS: Anyone want to start an ARRSE Rail Accident Investigation Team?

The train was running ‘right line’ as it had passed over a crossover. Line speed is max 75 but the crossover which isn’t that far from the site is only 15mph so unlikely to have been going at that great a speed.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Indeed, once all the casualties are extracted going to be interested to see how they can remove the train too with poor access.
The power cars alone are 70 tons or thereabouts. Likely to be cut up on site with any valuable parts salvaged.
Similar happened to a Class 66 north of the border some years ago.
 
Diesel powered? Would explain the fire
yes, if you remember the Paddington Rail crash, it was the diesel from the HST that caused the fire. Each loco will carry about 4500 litres.

e2a: Also you don't need much speed, you've got quite a bit of weight an momentum at play. Each Loco is about 70 tons and the coaches , probably Mk4, are about 40ton each, if memory serves.
So you've probably got 5 on, with all up, say about 340tons.
 
She will be miffed that a Tory MP and Tory Minister were out there before her.

Also, I note that the Beeb have just had an utterly pointless interview with "the SNP MP for Aberdeenshire" from her car, who obviously has nothing to add, and no real knowledge, without acknowledging that this seems to have happened on the Conservative MP's patch.

I wonder if they will have to ask for MACA support from the RE to facilitate recovery of the train, given how stuck it seems to be? I mean to allow lifting gear to get close enough...
RE don't have much to offer here, civil industry is far better equipped. You are are going to need some serious lifting kit here. Think Liebherr 800ton cranes.

We used to have rail based cranes, I think Volker have some. Grayrigg they used road cranes to remove the rolling stock.

Either way it looks like a pig of a location. I saw footage of coastguard vehicles heading into the site so I'm assuming they need to use ropes to access.

I'm speculating, but it looks like stock may have rolled off down a bank or something like that.
 

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