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Scottish referendum - game on?

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#2
Salmond is still trying to figure out how to get the result he wants.
Support for independence is only 30% so he needs to stack the odds a bit more in his favour.
 
#3
Cameron should just be done with it and offer a federal Union, with fully devolved powers to all three assemblies/Parliaments excepting Foreign/Defence issues, which would be decided at Westminster.
 
#4
What do the Scots actually do for us other than consume benefits and **** up the banking system (Fred Goodwin) or the economy (Gordon Brown)? Kick them out of the Union and rebuild Hadrian's Wall, it'll cut off some chippy northerners too.
 
#5
Salmond is still trying to figure out how to get the result he wants.
Support for independence is only 30% so he needs to stack the odds a bit more in his favour.
And I always think the 30% is a bit soft and may be a lot less when actually faced with a straight yes/no question. That seems to be what Cameron is aiming for.
 
#7
Cameron should just be done with it and offer a federal Union, with fully devolved powers to all three assemblies/Parliaments excepting Foreign/Defence issues, which would be decided at Westminster.
Nah..

Just an excuse for giving even more power to a bunch of jumped up Toon Cooncelors and career politicians who have clearly demonstrated ( Pairlement Building & trams) that they could not run an empty whelk stall..

The UK population needs to understand that it is the weak, incompetant political class that has let us into the fine mess we are in at the moment. Yes, we need democratic mechanisms to prevent dictatorships forming, however the danger is that the system gets clogged up with "politicking" and needs a good clearout now and again.

Traditionally this happens by having a revolution, but these can be a bit messy! The UK's trick in the 18th & 19th centuary, when everybody else was tearing lumps out of themselves, was to run a politically light system that kept things moving, with a small central administration and lots of devolved power. Since WW2 this has changed, with an ever increasing political class supported by an overblown state sector which is consuming the lion's share of the country's resources..

My starter for 10...

1. Get rid of all the "local parliaments"..

2. Cut the number of MPs in the UK Commons by (at least) 1/3.

3. Remove politicoes from the upper house. Replace with nominees from industry, administration, military, science & the arts with a very tight limitation on the number of lawyers allowed to enter. House to have a fixed number of places replaced on dead men's shoes..

4. Introduce a mimimum age for election to public office of 40, with a maximum term of two elections.

5. Remove all proportional representation scams. First past the post at alll levels..
 
#10
Hurrah. It's been at least three days since the last thread about this.

I was getting quite worried.
Well, I sort of hoped that a new thread under the new regime might actually result in some serious discussion - but I'm still waiting for the cheque and have a funny taste in my mouth ...............
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#11
Well, I sort of hoped that a new thread under the new regime might actually result in some serious discussion
Good luck with that. I'd like to point you to post #4 above and predict that the majority of all responses will be as pointless and witless.

I'm just being grumpy as it'll be me that has to clean the thread up as it runs to form again.

However to address the point; Cameron and his party were staunchly against any referendum. Now that he thinks that the longer he leaves it, the better Salmond's chances of winning it, he's now a big fan of referenda (apart from the one on Europe that he promised to have)?

Give me a break. Pure naked political opportunism. Nothing more.
 
#14
Good luck with that. I'd like to point you to post #4 above and predict that the majority of all responses will be as pointless and witless.

I'm just being grumpy as it'll be me that has to clean the thread up as it runs to form again.

However to address the point; Cameron and his party were staunchly against any referendum. Now that he thinks that the longer he leaves it, the better Salmond's chances of winning it, he's now a big fan of referenda (apart from the one on Europe that he promised to have)?

Give me a break. Pure naked political opportunism. Nothing more.
Exactly, because we all know that politicians cannot change their minds. Their very first idea must be the one they stick with. It matters not whether world events change, if the view of the electorate changes or if the opposition shifts the agenda.

Politicians! Bury your head in the sand and stick to your principles. To hell with the consequences, when it all goes to rat-shit, we will respect you for being able to say "I told you so!"

Unless you know some other way of skinning the cat of course.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#17
Would this mean an end to Peter Dow? What would he do with all the pent up anger he has inside?
There's an added bonus everywhere you look to this independence malarky.

Now let's just watch as Dave goes on to show that he has never viewed Scotland as anything other than another English county and the resultant upset his latest gaff will cause north of the border. Will God's own people stand for such impertinence? The upshot may very well be that he may just be doing Mr Salmond a favour. Dave's shitting himself as any division here, will result in even less recognition by the EU and elsewhere. Together we stand? Yes Dave, but only on your terms and for your security, eh? And now that he's found a liking for referendums, perhaps he can have one on whether the UK should remain in the EU or not? One which only has two options..yes or no.

Now, let's push for a referendum in England to see if they want us to stay or go. If this site is to be seen as a barometer, it could actually help us on our way!

Roll on Independence!
 
#19
However to address the point; Cameron and his party were staunchly against any referendum. Now that he thinks that the longer he leaves it, the better Salmond's chances of winning it, he's now a big fan of referenda (apart from the one on Europe that he promised to have)?

Give me a break. Pure naked political opportunism. Nothing more.
Of course it is ... but then again Salmond is hardly a stranger to that.

I've believed for a long time that a referendum was needed and that it should be a straight yes/no. It will either provide the basis for a dissolution of the union, or put independence on the back burner for a couple of decades. Neither outcome will have substantial practical effect on me, but it's interesting to watch.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
if Scotland left the UK would Cameron have a majority gov?
After the parliamentary seat boundary changes in 2013, Scotland will have 52 seats, a good chunk of which vote Labour. So, yes, it would be a lot easier for a Conservative government to get a English/Welsh/NI majority.

Call Me Dave and Wee Eck are well that the result of any referendum is dependent on the question.

- Wee Eck's preferred question is "Are you prepared for negotiations to start on the terms of Scottish Independence from the UK".

- CMD's question would be "Do you want independence from the UK".

The people answering yes is much higher for Wee Ecks question than CMD's because CMD's question forces people to look at the reality of what will happen whereas Wee Eck's just fudges the issue.

So CMD can probably force the independence genie back into the bottle for a decade by asking his preferred question and preventing Wee Eck asking his.

Wordsmith
 
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