Scottish Politics Thread

[BPS666]

On This Day - What Happened on October 19

Coincidence?

Not really.

 

[BPS666]

IMO I think Nicoliar knows she wont get the go ahead from Boris ( TBH hes too busy farting cake and covid into BBC viewers letterboxes and wiping his arrse on benefit claims anyway). This has 2 potential results:

It allows the Snazies to blame England for everything and for Nicoliar to downgrade the proposed neverendum to a consultation on whether we should have another neverendum. A sizeable portion of right minded people won't vote in a consultation and this will allow Nicoliar to claim that the consultation should be upheld as the constitutional will of the central belt Scottish electorate. She then gets to have a neverendum

She loses the legal argument, blames the English and gets hoofed by the Snazies who then hold a consultation ............... (see above)

 

[DSJ]

Stolen from a commenter on a different site but, if we are to have another independence referendum, have the following options on the ballot paper:

1) Support an independent Scotland

OR

2) Support the closing down of the Scottish Parliament.

The SNP have demonstrated time and time again that they can't be trusted to run a bath, let alone a country. If we are going to have more referendums, then allow us the right to vote on the usefulness/uselessness of regional assemblies.

 

[Murphy_Slaw]

And on the day Sturgeon announces another forlorn hope to split up the counrty, this:

Queen appears at armed forces parade in Edinburgh

It is the 96-year-old monarch's second public appearance since arriving in Scotland on Monday.

www.bbc.co.uk

HM once again showing Sturgeon what a leader and stateswoman looks like.

 

[Mick9abf]

And then adding, when the supreme court say no, she can blame it on Westminster laws!

This wasn't so much putting the case for independence, more a desperate last throw of the dice by an idiot who has backed herself into a corner she has no way out of.

The "irrefutable mandate" comes from not having a majority parliament and less than 50% of the vote (even if you include the greens) The proposal for holding the next general election on a single manifesto issue, when the legal bid goes tits up, makes me laugh. That's what the SNP have been doing for 2 decades and they haven't achieved it yet.

More student politics from the grievance party. And what was all the clapping about? Despite repeated calls from the presiding officer, the SNP back benchers continued to behave like a student union sit in. Yet even more evidence they are not fit to run a regional council, let alone a country.

If only the 3 main unionist partys would work together, she could be sunk without trace.

And then saying if they don’t get it they will run their next U.K. General Election on the basis of independence. Forgive me but she has been doing this de facto for her whole time in post (and still didn’t get a majority).

I think she knows this is the last throw of the dice, she’s not expecting to get the go ahead from the U.K. Supreme Court as it’s already in legislation that the Section 30 is out of her hands but will get a good bit of grievance mongering on the go to hide the many failures.

I genuinely wonder if this is an insight that she already doesn’t expect to win the Scottish vote in the next GE and will use it to stand down as the longest serving FM as she only sees herself in the top job and couldn’t be in opposition as in her eyes she’s too good for that, or she won’t have the control of the narrative.

It has also shown clearly that the Lord Advocates position has been politicised with control of decisions lying with the incumbent SG (something particularly concerning) as I can’t see how the current U.K. law can be challenged as it will have been drafted to avoid this sort of scenario.

 

[FourZeroCharlie]

The dough-faced witch can announce a referendum for the Twiddly Third of Septober if it so pleases her: nothing will happen unless Westminster agrees to such a proposal.

Not Boris Grrr.

Not they Bastid Toaries.

But Parliament, at Westminster.

 

[BuggerAll]

The dough-faced witch can announce a referendum for the Twiddly Third of Septober if it so pleases her: nothing will happen unless Westminster agrees to such a proposal.

Not Boris Grrr.

Not they Bastid Toaries.

But Parliament, at Westminster.

Trying to stifle democracy by process doesn’t work.

I would not vote for independence and am a BoJo supporter but I resent him deciding that we should not have a voice in our future.

I also think it’s a strategic error. Call her bluff. Successive polls show that the majority would vote ’no’. The SNP want to turn it into a fight because they know that there will be many people who resent the interference from Westminster and some of them will be converted into SNP voters.

 

[exbluejob]

Nicola Sturgeon has just unveiled her independence referendum bill, which sets a firm date for the SNP’s desired ballot: the 18th October, 2023. The very theoretical question would be identical to 2014’s “Should Scotland be an independent country?” – unsurprising given when the Remain campaign tried copying this the Electoral Commission said no on the grounds it gives a boost to the ‘yes’ side. Sturgeon has confirmed the Scottish Lord Advocate will refer the bill to the UK Supreme Court this afternoon in an attempt to confirm the legality of the bill.

If the Supreme Court decides the Scottish Parliament doesn’t have the power to hold the referendum without a UK government-approved Section 30 order, Sturgeon says it will be the “fault of Westminster legislation, not the court“, and finally prove Scotland is locked in a union against its will. If all else fails, Sturgeon threatens that the SNP will turn the next election into “a de facto referendum“, by standing on the single-issue platform of independence.

Sturgeon Admits SNP Has No Independence Plan if Supreme Court Rejects Legality

Nicola Sturgeon has just unveiled her independence referendum bill, which sets a firm date for the SNP's desired ballot: the 18th October, 2023. The very

order-order.com

 

[shellbackmac]

So, with no referendum on October 19th next year remotely likely, the next GE, according to Sturgeon, is a "de facto" referendum??!!

How the feck is that supposed to work? Nationalist votes need to outnumber Unionist votes? The SNP win a majority of Westminster seats (as they have in 3 GE's)? Either one and Scotland is magically independent? This is now firmly in the realms of fantasy.

Half of me wants to get a 2nd referendum out of the way, as happened in Quebec, but that, even when she loses, plays into nationalist hands, as INDYREF3 will be called for within 30 seconds of the result, with cries of "we've done it twice, why not three times?"

Not even the usually rabid nats on the Herald website are remotely energised by this latest annual announcement of yet another march to the top of the hill.

 

[Tyk]

Extend the vote to include England and Scotland would be forced to become independent, with ALL that entails.
Much as I like Scotland and the Scots, to say I'm sick and tired of the SNP and Scotgov blaming everything on England is an understatement.
I'm a unionist by nature, but getting rid of those banshees across the border and seeing them deal with the very unpleasant realities would be a huge plus. One big enough to make me happy to accept the Union is past its sell by date.

 

[Mick9abf]

So, with no referendum on October 19th next year remotely likely, the next GE, according to Sturgeon, is a "de facto" referendum??!!

How the feck is that supposed to work? Nationalist votes need to outnumber Unionist votes? The SNP win a majority of Westminster seats (as they have in 3 GE's)? Either one and Scotland is magically independent? This is now firmly in the realms of fantasy.

Half of me wants to get a 2nd referendum out of the way, as happened in Quebec, but that, even when she loses, plays into nationalist hands, as INDYREF3 will be called for within 30 seconds of the result, with cries of "we've done it twice, why not three times?"

Not even the usually rabid nats on the Herald website are remotely energised by this latest annual announcement of yet another march to the top of the hill.

I’m getting to the point I’ve had enough, give them it and when they lose dissolve the Scottish Parliament and sack the lot of those rats from all parties as we’re paying twice for two sets of idiots to do what one set is slightly more qualified to do.

 

[Tyk]

I’m getting to the point I’ve had enough, give them it and when they lose dissolve the Scottish Parliament and sack the lot of those rats from all parties as we’re paying twice for two sets of idiots to do what one set is slightly more qualified to do.

That point passed long ago, the devolved Assemblies serve no useful or productive purpose, but to be entirely fair setting them up was always a performative step.

 

[shellbackmac]

Not really relevant in context of next GE, but this was the combined votes in the 2019 GE along Unionist/Nationalist lines (less 3000 or so independent party votes):


1,484,740 - Combined CON/LAB/LIB DEM/BREXIT/UKIP

1,270,502 - Combined SNP/Green

This was on a 68.1 percent turnout, with the obvious caveat that some voters (hard to believe in Scotland I know!) may have voted without independence/Unionism in mind......

 

[DSJ]

The party’s almost over for Sturgeon’s Nats, and they know it

The SNP's Westminster contingent are mired in as nasty a series of sleazy scandals as the Commons has witnessed for a long time

www.telegraph.co.uk

The party’s almost over for Sturgeon’s Nats, and they know it​

The SNP's Westminster contingent are mired in as nasty a series of sleazy scandals as the Commons has witnessed for a long time
ALAN COCHRANE27 June 2022 • 7:05pm

Nicola Sturgeon might well think she is treading a path to another referendum when she delivers stage two of her masterplan to break up Britain on Tuesday. But as her party begins to crumble around her amid a welter of sleaze, nobody believes that she has a cat in hell’s chance of success.
Honouring her pledge to deliver Indyref2 in October 2023 seems an increasingly remote prospect. This she knows full well, but cannot admit for the simple reason that if she were ever to confront this reality, what would there be to live for?
In virtually every policy area, Sturgeon has proved that she is, as Clement Attlee once bluntly explained to a minister he was sacking, “not up to the job”. Rumours abound that she’s looking for a new role beyond politics. But for the moment, the fight to achieve independence is the only thing keeping her activists warm at night.

Or at least it used to be. Now they are pretty fed up: tired of being drawn in with promise after promise that their referendum will come, no matter how many times Boris Johnson, or any successor, refuses to allow it. This matter is becoming more urgent by the day; opinion polls show the nationalists’ numbers dwindling as people concentrate on real issues like runaway inflation and a Europe at war.
In the meantime, these SNP members can see for themselves the state their party is in. Once a proudly democratic outfit where the one-person, one-vote rule reigned supreme, the SNP has become a one-woman show, with Sturgeon controlling everything yet squandering the power she’s amassed.
The result has been an eruption of internal bickering. At Holyrood, Sturgeon has refused to reveal details – on legal grounds, she insists, although that has been questioned – of bullying allegations levelled at a former senior minister.
Yet it is at Westminster that the SNP is in the deepest moral trouble, with Sturgeon’s contingent there mired in as nasty a series of sleazy scandals as the Commons has witnessed for a long time. Patrick Grady, the former SNP chief whip, has been suspended over accusations of sexual harassment, levelled by a young staffer. The Met Police are now investigating allegations that he made an “unwarranted sexual advance” towards a teenager in a London pub.
Then there’s the SNP’s Westminster leader, Ian Blackford, who urged his fellow MPs to support Grady wholeheartedly despite the allegations (but has since been forced into an about-turn and apology). Blackford himself is now under investigation by the parliamentary authorities over claims he bullied a party employee.
Excluded from their party’s inner workings, the SNP’s Westminster contingent have largely been left to their own devices. They habitually misbehave, a comfortable distance from their leader in Edinburgh, falling foul of Parliament’s most dangerous four-letter word: bars. (There are something like 16 of them dotted around the Commons and Lords.) Sturgeon may have said that Blackford retains her confidence, but a recent spate of unwelcome publicity has left her determined to crack down on this rowdy bunch.
Still, back in her own wee world – for now, at least – Sturgeon’s aim today is to continue to bore for Scotland, pushing ahead with her unworkable plan for independence.

 

[CavalryCaptain]

Someone, clearly not an MSP, has been rather clever in the writing of that speech (although I find the word referendumS grates somewhat.)
"The referendum is NOT a constitutional matter (reserved) as it's acknowledged that it doesn't immediately lead to independence but rather the start of separation discussions etc."
It might just get past the Supreme Court, who knows. Although if everyone just ignores the result then the UDI that would have to follow would definitely be a constitutional matter.

 

[vvaannmmaann]

So another 16 months of this pish, and 16 months when nothing else will get done? When will the majority of Scots see this crap for what it is?

 

[GrumpyWasTooCheerful]

Someone, clearly not an MSP, has been rather clever in the writing of that speech (although I find the word referendumS grates somewhat.)
"The referendum is NOT a constitutional matter (reserved) as it's acknowledged that it doesn't immediately lead to independence but rather the start of separation discussions etc."
It might just get past the Supreme Court, who knows. Although if everyone just ignores the result then the UDI that would have to follow would definitely be a constitutional matter.

I wouldn't trust the Supreme Court to judge a one-legged arrse kicking contest let alone the legality of an SNP neverendum.

 

[FourZeroCharlie]

Trying to stifle democracy by process doesn’t work.

I would not vote for independence and am a BoJo supporter but I resent him deciding that we should not have a voice in our future.

I also think it’s a strategic error. Call her bluff. Successive polls show that the majority would vote ’no’. The SNP want to turn it into a fight because they know that there will be many people who resent the interference from Westminster and some of them will be converted into SNP voters.

Whilst I acknowledge your position, I will respond with one phrase:

'Once in a generation . . . ' cf Salmond, Sturgeon et al

 

[shellbackmac]

I’m getting to the point I’ve had enough, give them it and when they lose dissolve the Scottish Parliament and sack the lot of those rats from all parties as we’re paying twice for two sets of idiots to do what one set is slightly more qualified to do.

The "Abolish the Scottish Parliament" party ran at the last Scottish elections in 2021. My dad asked one of their canvassers if he could volunteer to drive the bulldozer. He was told he'd have to join the queue!

 

[LeoRoverman]

Sturgeon has confirmed the Scottish Lord Advocate will refer the bill to the UK Supreme Court this afternoon in an attempt to confirm the legality of the bill.

H ha ha ha , The SNP leader comes to the UK to confirm the legality of the bill. Does she not realise that the only time the court can decide the legality of anything is when it is enacted, it has no power to confirm or deny the intentions of the political parties operations in their own bailiwicks. Nichola (die halbe Portion) could just declare UDI, I've said this before and await the outcome from the UK Givernment. If she is so determined to lead Scotland, let her put her head on the block ( metaphorically of course) given Boris hasn't executed any Scot Pretenders recently.