Scottish Politics Thread

However it must be in the accounts somewhere......
Aye, you might think that, as would I. Yet three members of the SNP Finance Committee resigned as they were not allowed access to their own accounts. Luckily Police Scotland are on the case.
 

Fang_Farrier

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NEW concerns have emerged about how safe the NHS is in SNP hands as it has emerged the current party president and a major party donor advocated privatisation of health care in a blueprint for the nation.
Michael Russell, the former constitution secretary who was appointed political director on the SNP's independence unit in June, outlined the radical vision for the future of the NHS in a book written with mining tycoon and major party donor Dennis MacLeod, who died two years ago at the age of 79.
It comes after the Herald on Sunday revealed how private health care hospitals and firms are being invited to bid for the provision of 1500 procedures in vital medical care including lifesaving surgery normally carried out by the NHS in Scotland.
Scottish Government quango NHS National Services Scotland (NSS) has been sanctioned to create a dynamic purchasing system (DPS) for private firms to provide surgery and other medical care across the health care spectrum in a move that some fear sets a pathway for privatisation of the NHS.
Would-be contractors have been told that health care support could even be provided outside of Scotland.
 

NEW concerns have emerged about how safe the NHS is in SNP hands as it has emerged the current party president and a major party donor advocated privatisation of health care in a blueprint for the nation.
Michael Russell, the former constitution secretary who was appointed political director on the SNP's independence unit in June, outlined the radical vision for the future of the NHS in a book written with mining tycoon and major party donor Dennis MacLeod, who died two years ago at the age of 79.
It comes after the Herald on Sunday revealed how private health care hospitals and firms are being invited to bid for the provision of 1500 procedures in vital medical care including lifesaving surgery normally carried out by the NHS in Scotland.
Scottish Government quango NHS National Services Scotland (NSS) has been sanctioned to create a dynamic purchasing system (DPS) for private firms to provide surgery and other medical care across the health care spectrum in a move that some fear sets a pathway for privatisation of the NHS.
Would-be contractors have been told that health care support could even be provided outside of Scotland.
I don't have a problem with that. An independent Scotland would not be able to afford a SNHS on the scale that currently exists so have to plan for an alternative.

As long as that alternative never comes to pass because they'll never achieve independence that is :)
 

NEW concerns have emerged about how safe the NHS is in SNP hands as it has emerged the current party president and a major party donor advocated privatisation of health care in a blueprint for the nation.
Michael Russell, the former constitution secretary who was appointed political director on the SNP's independence unit in June, outlined the radical vision for the future of the NHS in a book written with mining tycoon and major party donor Dennis MacLeod, who died two years ago at the age of 79.
It comes after the Herald on Sunday revealed how private health care hospitals and firms are being invited to bid for the provision of 1500 procedures in vital medical care including lifesaving surgery normally carried out by the NHS in Scotland.
Scottish Government quango NHS National Services Scotland (NSS) has been sanctioned to create a dynamic purchasing system (DPS) for private firms to provide surgery and other medical care across the health care spectrum in a move that some fear sets a pathway for privatisation of the NHS.
Would-be contractors have been told that health care support could even be provided outside of Scotland.

the Scottish NHS is broken, ruined by Nationalist Socialism, unwillingness to change/improve and a lackadaisical staff whose standards have slipped far below that of previous generations. At this point, radical change is required and if that involves privatisation then I'm all in
 

Auld-Yin

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the Scottish NHS is broken, ruined by Nationalist Socialism, unwillingness to change/improve and a lackadaisical staff whose standards have slipped far below that of previous generations. At this point, radical change is required and if that involves privatisation then I'm all in
I'm not.

If privatisation comes in then the costs will zoom. The NHS will retain the money they already have and private healthcare groups will stick their charges on patients. If you have ever had to take a pet to the vet you will see how the charges can, do and quickly mount up!
 

Fang_Farrier

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the Scottish NHS is broken, ruined by Nationalist Socialism, unwillingness to change/improve and a lackadaisical staff whose standards have slipped far below that of previous generations. At this point, radical change is required and if that involves privatisation then I'm all in

It has been an issue for longer than the SNP have been in power.

And I don't think privatisation will make any difference, as it will be the same staff, same management, just a different badge.
 
It has been an issue for longer than the SNP have been in power.

Agreed

And I don't think privatisation will make any difference, as it will be the same staff, same management, just a different badge.

I don't think that Privatisation will make a great deal of difference.

What will make a difference is splitting treatment into 2 distinct parts.

  • Treatment that is available to all - Free at point of use.
  • Procedures that are available to all - That you pay for.
  1. IVF
  2. Cosmetic surgeries
  3. A whole raft of others that people working in the NHS will know about.
The NHS is a Health Service - It was never intended to be an all encompassing freebies for everyone Service.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
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Agreed



I don't think that Privatisation will make a great deal of difference.

What will make a difference is splitting treatment into 2 distinct parts.

  • Treatment that is available to all - Free at point of use.
  • Procedures that are available to all - That you pay for.
  1. IVF
  2. Cosmetic surgeries
  3. A whole raft of others that people working in the NHS will know about.
The NHS is a Health Service - It was never intended to be an all encompassing freebies for everyone Service.

NHS Dentistry is already that.
With a private option.

It's not in the best of health
 
NHS Dentistry is already that.
With a private option.

It's not in the best of health

I don't really think you can make a direct comparison between NHS Dentistry and NHS Medical.

As an example

How much does NHS Dentistry fork out out each year for ambulances to taxi drunken / drugged idiots from pubs / clubs / dens / lying in the street to A&E ?
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
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I don't really think you can make a direct comparison between NHS Dentistry and NHS Medical.

As an example

How much does NHS Dentistry fork out out each year for ambulances to taxi drunken / drugged idiots from pubs / clubs / dens / lying in the street to A&E ?

But it is an example of where NHS care is mainly provided by independent contractors.

And completely contradicts the constant rhetoric of the NHS being free at point of care.

However in terms of your analogy, how many of the facial injuries of said patients are treated by medical as opposed to dental? Especially if exempt payment as on benefits?
 
But it is an example of where NHS care is mainly provided by independent contractors.

And completely contradicts the constant rhetoric of the NHS being free at point of care.

I think we can agree that nothing is free - Regardless of how it might be spun or interpreted.

The main point being that '' Healthcare '' has gone from 11% of Public spending to over 30% of public spending.

I do not care one iota, how people might try to spin or defend that - The plain fact is that it is unsustainable.

Without finger pointing or trying to apportion blame - We either

  • Let the NHS collapse
  • Dig a bigger hole elsewhere to keep throwing money at a black hole
  • Radically change the NHS
  • Bring in compulsory Private* healthcare for those earning above £xx,xxx amount
* My Private healthcare for 3 of us is less than £3000 a year. ( Cheaper than a single dose of IVF, a boob job and a multitude of other cosmetic procedures that are done as freebies )
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
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Book Reviewer
I think we can agree that nothing is free - Regardless of how it might be spun or interpreted.

The main point being that '' Healthcare '' has gone from 11% of Public spending to over 30% of public spending.

I do not care one iota, how people might try to spin or defend that - The plain fact is that it is unsustainable.

Without finger pointing or trying to apportion blame - We either

  • Let the NHS collapse
  • Dig a bigger hole elsewhere to keep throwing money at a black hole
  • Radically change the NHS
  • Bring in compulsory Private* healthcare for those earning above £xx,xxx amount
* My Private healthcare for 3 of us is less than £3000 a year. ( Cheaper than a single dose of IVF, a boob job and a multitude of other cosmetic procedures that are done as freebies )

Higher spending is indicative of the demographics, we have known for decades that the relative numbers of older folk were coming, and now they are here. Often with multiple health conditions.


I would suggest that given that the incidence of many medical conditions can be linked to social economic grouping, that those higher earners are not usually much of a strain on the NHS.
 
Higher spending is indicative of the demographics, we have known for decades that the relative numbers of older folk were coming, and now they are here. Often with multiple health conditions.


I would suggest that given that the incidence of many medical conditions can be linked to social economic grouping, that those higher earners are not usually much of a strain on the NHS.

I did say - Without pointing the finger or trying to apportion blame,

Without finger pointing or trying to apportion blame - We either

  • Let the NHS collapse
  • Dig a bigger hole elsewhere to keep throwing money at a black hole
  • Radically change the NHS

The fact of the matter, no matter how people try to dance around it, is that the NHS, in it's current guise is unsustainable.
 
I think we can agree that nothing is free - Regardless of how it might be spun or interpreted.

The main point being that '' Healthcare '' has gone from 11% of Public spending to over 30% of public spending.

I do not care one iota, how people might try to spin or defend that - The plain fact is that it is unsustainable.

Without finger pointing or trying to apportion blame - We either

  • Let the NHS collapse
  • Dig a bigger hole elsewhere to keep throwing money at a black hole
  • Radically change the NHS
  • Bring in compulsory Private* healthcare for those earning above £xx,xxx amount
* My Private healthcare for 3 of us is less than £3000 a year. ( Cheaper than a single dose of IVF, a boob job and a multitude of other cosmetic procedures that are done as freebies )

I understand your point of view but no private health care insurance company would touch me with a bargepole. Any political party that advocated a private health care system would be unelectable because the majority of the voting public all have members of their close family with expensive to treat health problems. They would be faced with letting members of their family suffer.

I would suggest a radical analysis of how the system is funded: the GP and Pharmaceutical sectors being primary candidates for the audit microscope imo.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Agreed



I don't think that Privatisation will make a great deal of difference.

What will make a difference is splitting treatment into 2 distinct parts.

  • Treatment that is available to all - Free at point of use.
  • Procedures that are available to all - That you pay for.
  1. IVF
  2. Cosmetic surgeries
  3. A whole raft of others that people working in the NHS will know about.
The NHS is a Health Service - It was never intended to be an all encompassing freebies for everyone Service.
Your private healthcare only costs that because you are still entitled to NHS care. Private healthcare would not treat you if you had a 999 emergency.

One of the things that Covid has highlighted is international health inequalities. We, in the UK and in west get amazing healthcare. We’ve all had access to vaccines and all the rest of it not because of any virtues we may have but simply because we happen to live here.

If we spent 10% of our healthcare budget in the west in Africa and other places it could transform their healthcare. We could deal with malaria, trachoma and any number of other crippling diseases.

If the SNP get what they want we may hope that other countries are willing to spend more on 3rd world health systems because we’ll be passing around a begging bowl.
 

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