Scottish Politics Thread

HE117

LE
There was plenty of discussion from both sides pre IndyRef 1.

Over the years, it has slowly morphed into a very one sided affair.
Look, can we have a serious discussion about this..

We are not discussing an issue that can be settled by a marginal preference.. to contemplate a major change in society such as the creation of a new nation state is not something that you want to enter into with such an evenly divided society. The fragility of the outcome is so dangerous to all the parts of the resulting society that the cure is likely to be more damaging than the complaint..

In most democratic systems there is usually a safeguard to reduce the dangers inherent in creating fine divisions, which simply do not resolve themselves. Typically the case to overthrow the status quo has to achieve a significant margin to secure the change such as a 2/3 majority to change a constitution.

Most of the "discussion" you are referring to was between a tiny percentage of the nation, and mostly with huge personal and hidden agendas, and minimal responisblity for the outcome!

Can you not see that it is the process of bickering over tiny differences that is the real danger? Entering into independence with such a divided community would be incredibly dangerous, and given some of the depth of resentment that has been stirred up, highly likely to result in violence.

Ulster took 30 years to bring it back to a level of sensible abuse...

Do you really want this?
 
And that seems to be the Nats way of working, gnawing away at the opposition until it goes away, leaving just Nats. What Scotland needs is more people willing to put St Nic (pbuh) back in her box rather than just run away from her.
Rather easy where you have a media circus that gives you an easy ride in Scotland and a national one which attacks the current PM on a near daily basis giving them so much ammunition no one actually stops and say “but wait a minute”.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Look, can we have a serious discussion about this..

We are not discussing an issue that can be settled by a marginal preference.. to contemplate a major change in society such as the creation of a new nation state is not something that you want to enter into with such an evenly divided society. The fragility of the outcome is so dangerous to all the parts of the resulting society that the cure is likely to be more damaging than the complaint..

In most democratic systems there is usually a safeguard to reduce the dangers inherent in creating fine divisions, which simply do not resolve themselves. Typically the case to overthrow the status quo has to achieve a significant margin to secure the change such as a 2/3 majority to change a constitution.

Most of the "discussion" you are referring to was between a tiny percentage of the nation, and mostly with huge personal and hidden agendas, and minimal responisblity for the outcome!

Can you not see that it is the process of bickering over tiny differences that is the real danger? Entering into independence with such a divided community would be incredibly dangerous, and given some of the depth of resentment that has been stirred up, highly likely to result in violence.

Ulster took 30 years to bring it back to a level of sensible abuse...

Do you really want this?


I was referring to this site.

As I stated, I am not in favour of IndyRef 2.

There is very much deadlock at present between the two sides of political spectrum.

In terms of the current situation, there are far more pressing issues to be addressed than Independence.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer

HCL

LE
How I see it, the Union's done within 10 years because of the generation factor, the Unionists will become the minority because they'll die off. Giving 16 year olds the vote should have been kicked into touch by Westminster, someone cocked up there, as it's the SNP's ultimate trump card.

Boris cannot win this, its political death by a 1,000 cuts unless he's ruthless and lets loose the darker forces of the state.

Give Scotland Dominion status for a 10 year trial period, autonomy bar constitutional matters and defence, and it has to have a currency independent of Sterling.

Two Parliaments' worth of proper home rule should either prove or disprove the SNP's manifesto.
 
I was referring to this site.

As I stated, I am not in favour of IndyRef 2.

There is very much deadlock at present between the two sides of political spectrum.

In terms of the current situation, there are far more pressing issues to be addressed than Independence.
Indeed in the latest poll

Asked to select up to three of the most important issues the new Scottish Government should prioritise, 50 per cent chose NHS and social care, 46 per cent economy and jobs, 45 per cent Covid-19 recovery, 30 per cent education – and only 12 per cent independence.
 
Not sure why you lot are so glum today.

This result is not a surprise, we have known for months that the outcome was either going to be a slight SNP majority or a few seats off a majority. This was the better of the two.

There is no mandate for another referendum, Westminster knows it, Holyrood knows it.
The mutants on Twitter don't know it, but they have to be thrown a bone before they cannibalize each other.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
If Scotland does get to break away, what about the northern isles which seem to want independence from Holyrood. On top of that, will the Borders area, solid blue, wish to remain with England, should Holyrood have the right to deny them that?
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
If Scotland does get to break away, what about the northern isles which seem to want independence from Holyrood. On top of that, will the Borders area, solid blue, wish to remain with England, should Holyrood have the right to deny them that?

Shetland came within a baw's hair of being turned by SNP.
A swing of 19%.

It's no longer safe to say North Isles are wanting separation from Holyrood
 
If Scotland does get to break away, what about the northern isles which seem to want independence from Holyrood. On top of that, will the Borders area, solid blue, wish to remain with England, should Holyrood have the right to deny them that?
Going by 2014 iScotland would be Dundee and Glasgow. That sounds good enough to me :rofl:
 
Not sure why you lot are so glum today.

Constantly in a state of bemusement because since devolution a bunch of jumped up local councilors of all hues are collecting a generous wage masquerading as a government from the shortbread senate when it should be clear to all that they bring no net gain to Scotland. Whatsoever. Everything important is regressing and falling into disrepair while we continue to pour money into niche nonsense. All they do is fan the flames of division and hate while feathering their own nests and indulging in their petty internecine squabbles at public expense.

For hundreds of years we've produced brilliant minds contributing to the fields of medicine, engineering, architecture, economics, law etc yet this political mediocrity is what we're currently saddled with under the laughable pretence of 'self-determination'.
 
If Scotland does get to break away, what about the northern isles which seem to want independence from Holyrood. On top of that, will the Borders area, solid blue, wish to remain with England, should Holyrood have the right to deny them that?

Speaking as a borderer with family from both sides of proud Reiver heritage the SNP would do well to learn from history. The Scottish Borders are not likely to take independence well.
Edinburgh does not speak for the whole of Scotland anymore than London speaks for the whole of England or Cardiff for the whole of Wales.

An independent Scotland may find its border starts in Lanarkshire and Midlothian.
 
Not sure why you lot are so glum today.

This result is not a surprise, we have known for months that the outcome was either going to be a slight SNP majority or a few seats off a majority. This was the better of the two.

There is no mandate for another referendum, Westminster knows it, Holyrood knows it.
The mutants on Twitter don't know it, but they have to be thrown a bone before they cannibalize each other.

Bored with it mostly.

Severely unimpressed with Scottish politicans.
As a man with a strong dislike of all politicians it is quite striking how piss poor Scotlands are even in comparison to the rest of the UK.
It is sadly disappointing that post election day we are still in the same position of watching the unionist party's being unable to get all their shit in on

The only solution now is for the UK as a whole to chuck the kitchen sink at resolving the problem.
Once and for all
 
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There was plenty of discussion from both sides pre IndyRef 1.

Over the years, it has slowly morphed into a very one sided affair.

Does that not tell you something ?

I will also add, that there may well be a decent level of discussion to be had if the SNP dropped the EU bollox.

I would fight the corner for Independence - I will never fight the corner, when pish is being spouted about being Independent by jumping out of 1 Union to jump straight into another Union.

To paraphrase Ted

“ Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the wee donkey, can we drop the p1sh about being Independent and a member of the EU ? ”
 

ancienturion

LE
Book Reviewer
That was more draining than the usual day of voting and night of counting! I was duty so haven't had a drink and am now waking up sober to Groundhog day. A nationalist majority the same (plus 3 seats from 2016) as it has been since 2011. Independence roughly split 50/50. What's to look forward to? Zero, 5 more years of open warfare on the hated Tories in Wastemonster from the SG and the melon munchers with the SNP in the HOC taking the opposite stance on anything and everything just for the sake of being anti-English. Meanwhile the kids can't read or write properly, the roads around Dunfermline are full of holes and the NHS is still in the same godawful mess. Even if there is another referendum and the Nationalists lose the result will in no way be respected and I will be sat here with you lot in 5 years time talking about Sturgeon's democratic demand for Indyref 3, the roads around Dunfermline will be full of holes, the kids still won't be able to read or write.................
Perhaps now she will publish the long delayed independent report on Scottish education, I won’t hold my breath as most of it will probably be redacted!
 
Speaking as a borderer with family from both sides of proud Reiver heritage the SNP would do well to learn from history. The Scottish Borders are not likely to take independence well.
Edinburgh does not speak for the whole of Scotland anymore than London speaks for the whole of England or Cardiff for the whole of Wales.

An independent Scotland may find its border starts in Lanarkshire and Midlothian.
Quite.
As a youth studying history for A level one last Lesson before x mas break we strayed into local history.
it was pointed out that one reason Edward Longshanks came down so hard on Wallace and his murderous clans after their savage raids into the north,( after raiding Hexham he torched the school ,killing 36 children and two schoolmasters, something Mel Gibson neglected to cover.!).
Was that the English kings writ ran very weak north of a line through Lancaster and Ripon. And if the king could not be seen to provide protection then his power would wain to the Prince bishops in the east and warlord family’s over my way.
Similarily the kings of Scotland’s writ hardly ran at all once one got into the southern uplands. ‘Twas all robber family’s and fiefdoms.
this was in the late 70’s and it was likened to the then current situation in the Bekka valley Lebanon.
Queen Nichola best not poke that old nest.
 

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