Scottish Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Fang_Farrier, Feb 10, 2015.

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  1. I didn't participate but I'm not bumping my gums. Reason I didn't participate was because I was fairly convinced the "consultation" was constructed to be aimed at those opposed so would find in their favour, cynical I know but the SG have prompted me to be that way.

    I'm also not convinced it's a top concern for most of us living in Scotland at the moment, in a potentially independant Scotland however ..............
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  2. Unfortunately that last bit that highlights very poor spelling is, compared to many I know in Scotland, particularly Glasgow, quite good!
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  3. I 'll give you even longer odds that most of the rest of the population (like myself!) where not even aware that this public consultation existed and further, that the SNP would make a decision based purely on their own beliefs and those they coerced to respond in the way they wanted them to on their own website. Going further, the benefits for the Scottish economy (in a time where we're massively spending what we don't have!) were not properly put forward in their consultation. The only good news is that really is the nail in the coffin for Scottish independence because even the SNP can no longer lie that we are sat on billions of pounds of oil or gas to fund their republic.
    Finally, make no mistake, in the years ahead this will resurface when we still need a fuel source to re-charge all of the electric cars etc and the oil or coal power stations can no longer be provisioned.
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  4. Gentleman it is pointless to engage with the MOD formerly known as sixty, his posts are either urine extracting or a cry for help over his political cake that he cannot digest
    In short who needs FM questions when ArchDook Charles is online
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  5. Found a speech by the FM, its interesting:

    "Ugg, me want green Scotland! Ugg, me want Scotland electric, it green! Me no care copper and lithium bad for planet, bad for health. Ugg, me no care frack gas imported to grangemouth, me want green Scotland. Me no care about rest of world!"

    And there you have it chaps, the SNP policy on a Greener Scotland.

    Basically, move the pollution out of Scotland, thus claiming Green credentials, whilst importing copper and lithium to support a proliferation of wind turbines and electric vehicles, and not giving a damn about the pollution both natural resources create in their extraction and processing (or the sudden increase in cost). Lithium also has the added issue of its requirement for millions of gallons of water to extract, and the fact it is groundwater that is pumped to the surface and evaporated. Kills the SNPs argument that ground water should never be compromised and hence fracking banned.

    It's all a bit like throwing your rubbish over your neighbours wall and telling the other neighbour on the other side that you are the tidiest person in the street!

    Current estimates say copper supplies will run out by 2048...and that is at current consumption. Consumption will have to ramp up to meet the increased demand in the future. We may find new copper deposits, but you can bet they will be in China or North Korea...leading to the same strangle hold the Saudis have on oil.


    Lithium is also a finite source. Its a bit harder to predict, but most institutions believe we have around 50 years of lithium extraction left. Current estimates indicate that to meet the demand of new cars based on the indication from several countries that they will go full electric in 30 years, we only have access to a third of the lithium required. The cost of Lithium has skyrocketed in the last 5 years...and for good reason.


    So basically, we are swapping one finite source for another, we are creating huge pollution issues, but because they are not in our back yard they don't matter, and we are taking our eggs out of the Middle East and placing them firmly in the Far east or some crackpot dictatorship of a South American country (lithium)...

    The UK has neither copper nor lithium, and will never have it, placing us at the whim of the world and in an extremely vulnerable position.
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  6. Your point has some validity, I didn't participate. Although I don't recall much, if any, publicity encouraging me to, or explaining how to participate. It smacks of a well co-ordinated campaign by the 'anti' pressure groups who doubtless guided their activists through the process.

    I did participate in their consultation regarding BTP. It was a farce, every question worded to shape the response. Raising objections in the format chosen was virtually impossible.

    I'm undecided about fracking, but would suggest that by returning this 99% response the government have utterly failed in its objective (duty?) to accurately gauge public opinion.
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  7. Got to laugh at the SNP green credentials. They've given the steel plant I work in grants to install diesel generators. They want ban diesel cars from city centres but throwing a load of NOx and particulates up into the air in Motherwell is just fine. Indeed they'll pay us to do it. We aren't the only industrial place where this is happening up here either.

    Interestingly the generators are not there to power the plant. We are getting tax payers money for wind turbines to do that. The generators, of which there are a few dotted around the country, are to make up shortfall in the grid (for the general public) when things are tight during the winter months.
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  8. You mean the MOD that wants independence and, because he never got it, is buggering off to some other country :)
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  9. As someone who writes questions on a daily basis, we have to follow some very simple guidelines. "The question must illicit a response that can be deemed right or wrong, yes or no, true or false. There must be no ambiguous answers".

    The fact that the questions asked were what is known as a "Free Text" question prevents any form of accurate interpretation of results.

    For example, if we asked, "Should fracking be allowed in Scotland?" and then give them the option to click on Yes or No, we can accurately say X amount said yes, Y amount said no. An online scoring system could quite easily give us a true and accurate result because the answers are clear and concise.

    The way this survey works is thus. "Should fracking be allowed in Scotland? Put your answer in the box. The person "marking" the survey will have the chance now, to interpret the answer in a way they deem correct. If my answer was , "No, unless the proper legislation is in place", that could be a yes or no answer. They could answer, "I am uncertain", "Not yet", "That would depend on...." They are all answers that can have two meanings.

    And this is what has happened with the survey, humans have collated the data and given it a for or against ranking. based on their interpretation.

    Additionally, they have asked a jumble of questions that can illicit a questionee to answer "for" in some areas, and "against" in others. Again, someone interpreting this may suggest that although the person is clearly for fracking, because they said it could have negative environmental issues, they must in fact mean they are against it.

    Now, call me cynical, but I suspect that employing people to look at a survey and give feedback is open to abuse, especially if that employer has clearly stated they are against fracking.
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  10. I mean the candidate for site penis 2017/18
    What's the odds the FM will kowtow to the PM
    May invites Sturgeon to Brexit talks

    Am not suggesting 45% anus licking, more like 100% complete and utter ring dhoby that only followers of Eck Salmond can attain to
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  11. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

    The most annoying thing about the Archduke is that because he is a Mod he can't be put on ignore.

    He even has the mojo to get me 'sorry we're working to get back online' for just trying to post this.
  12. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

    Most informative but far toocomplicated for single-cell Green organisms to comprehend.
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  13. This bit is too infantile to bother with.

    I wouldn't go attributing this argument solely to the SNP. That way lies disappointment. In fact, this idiocy is a staple of all those opposing fracking, including the Labour Party. If Labour wins the next election, this will be applied in England as well.

    I'd be a bit wary with predictions of copper and lithium running out. There are vast amounts of both in the Earth, and as demand and prices rise, alternative methods of extraction will continue to be found. It's a similar story to the old "peak oil" bollocks.
    In fact, it is even possible that lithium could be replaced altogether by another material in batteries as the research progresses although I'm not holding my breath on that one, as battery scientists have continued to promise that the next revolution in battery technology is 6 months away for at least the last 10 years.

    One last point. It;s not true to say the UK has neither copper nor lithium. There are copper deposits that have been mined well into antiquity, but which are no longer economic - under current conditions. Lithium is present in Cornish tin mines to such an extent that there are people right now investigating the feasibility and economics of extracting it.
  14. The Further Fracking Deferment is by little doubt arrived at to keep the greens on board the greens would have pulled the plug on the SNP very quickly had they chose to do otherwise.

    The SNP are clinging on to power hoping for there Catalan moment that swings opinion as it stand there on there way out.
  15. There may be an element of greens holding the power. You may like to read this Fracking ban: What is Wales' situation?
    There is no powerful green movement in Wales. It's a weird situation where everyone thinks "Wales should be green" but no thought how the f8ck we survive as country, bit of a throw back to all mines and mine owners are evil.