Scottish Politics Thread

Health has been much reduced and we are in the process of remobilising services.

By spreading services across more locations you can keep footfall down at each.

Am involved in several locations, one issue we are having is timing of appointments and preventing patients being too close to each other.
Ideal is a one way system.
A facility such as NHS Louisa Jordan with all its space would be ideal.
So, correct me if I'm wrong:

spreading services reduces footfall at each hospital but doesn't it also increase the risk by spreading contact through an increased estate? All I can see this doing is lowering the risk of infection between the different categories of patients e.g. heart & stroke patients, orthopaedic, day surgery etc

Agree using LJ is a good idea, just not sure from what you've explained it will be used to it's full potential.

Trying very hard not to be negative here.
 

Fang_Farrier

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One of the main reason that health has been much reduced is because it is virtually impossible to see a GP, the first step in getting care. My GP is literally locked down and appointments are only made on emergency cases - everything else is dealt with by a phone call.

GPs refer patients to hospitals, we can't self refer so if people are not seeing GPs then it is unsurprising that work in hospitals is quieter than usual.
There are and have been steady streams of folk visiting GPs as well as GPs out visiting folk.
Admittedly not as many as before.
There has been a huge increase in telephone triaging prior to appointments being deemed necessary but healthcare has been heading that way for a while now.

Hospital services have also been shut down except for emergency cases.

But there have also been a vast reduction of contacts from patients. Some are self caring (things that in granny's and our parents time that would have been dealt with at home have become the remit of health care professionals), folk are not wanting to burden the NHS and folk are scared of catching Covid if sent to a hospital.

Even now, all theatre lists up here are emergency cases only. We have discuss our cases within our department, then present our most pressing to a committee which decides which departments will get how much theatre time and when each day.
 

Fang_Farrier

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So, correct me if I'm wrong:

spreading services reduces footfall at each hospital but doesn't it also increase the risk by spreading contact through an increased estate? All I can see this doing is lowering the risk of infection between the different categories of patients e.g. heart & stroke patients, orthopaedic, day surgery etc

Agree using LJ is a good idea, just not sure from what you've explained it will be used to it's full potential.

Trying very hard not to be negative here.

By putting slightly more folk into a vastly increased estate you reduce the density. It allows you to mainatin more distance even among the same patient group.

We have staff who have been redeployed into various roles as we are not fully working.

Some are acting as glorified bouncers. Manning doorways, ensuring patients entering health premises are given correct masks, hand gelling directing them to correct waiting areas, ensuring that they follow one way systems etc.
Others have been given roles as domestics. Where a clinic may have only been cleaned at end of day, they now have a cleaner permanently going around disinfecting everywhere, some items such as door handles getting wiped after every patient.

it is unlikely the LJ will be used to full potential but it was designed to cope with mass casualties of a specific type and we are looking to just get some use out of it.
 

Fang_Farrier

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Of course all this increased health activity relies on us having enough PPE of the correct sort but that's an entirely different story!
 

Auld-Yin

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Ok, I am getting a bit confused here, your statement "Health has been much reduced and we are in the process of remobilising services." is that a concern to you or a good thing?

When life gets back to normal will it continue to be difficult to actually see a GP and consultations done by phone? If it is, while I understand the reduction in a straining service will be welcome, this must have a detrimental effect on patient care with patients becoming reluctant to contacting GPs just to get another brush-off. As I said the route to hospital is via the GP or A&E and do you think A&E will start taking the place of the GP, or even more than it does now?

Complicated area but making it more difficult to see GPs is not, IMHO, going to be good for health in general.
 

Fang_Farrier

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Ok, I am getting a bit confused here, your statement "Health has been much reduced and we are in the process of remobilising services." is that a concern to you or a good thing?

When life gets back to normal will it continue to be difficult to actually see a GP and consultations done by phone? If it is, while I understand the reduction in a straining service will be welcome, this must have a detrimental effect on patient care with patients becoming reluctant to contacting GPs just to get another brush-off. As I said the route to hospital is via the GP or A&E and do you think A&E will start taking the place of the GP, or even more than it does now?

Complicated area but making it more difficult to see GPs is not, IMHO, going to be good for health in general.
Sorry should be "health care has been much reduced"

However health in general will have been impacted, we have not been screening for any of the usual suspects whereas we have relied heavily on those screening programmes to catch cases early.

As I said even before covid many GPs were operating telephone consults, you can see far more patients that way.

Video and telephone appointments were being trialled up here anyway due to the geographic distances for patients (Although this is not new I was involved in teleconferencing consultant appointments 20 years ago in Orkney) but the technology s no so much better and accessible for all. We can call anybody with a suitable phone.

I have lost track of the number of pictures of lesions I have been sent recently.

There have been many concerns expressed over the last fee years about over use and inappropriate use of A&Es. Issues such as using them instead of a GP as it's quicker and easier, a complete failure of a generation to be able to self care.
 

Auld-Yin

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Sorry should be "health care has been much reduced"

However health in general will have been impacted, we have not been screening for any of the usual suspects whereas we have relied heavily on those screening programmes to catch cases early.

As I said even before covid many GPs were operating telephone consults, you can see far more patients that way.

Video and telephone appointments were being trialled up here anyway due to the geographic distances for patients (Although this is not new I was involved in teleconferencing consultant appointments 20 years ago in Orkney) but the technology s no so much better and accessible for all. We can call anybody with a suitable phone.

I have lost track of the number of pictures of lesions I have been sent recently.

There have been many concerns expressed over the last fee years about over use and inappropriate use of A&Es. Issues such as using them instead of a GP as it's quicker and easier, a complete failure of a generation to be able to self care.
Perhaps this subject needs a thread on its own as it is a subject which is not really Scot Pol but affects everyone.

I totally understand what you are saying and understand the pressures that GPs have been under - much of their own making BTW. Telephone triage has been working in my GP practice for over a year where one phones the surgery, get put through to NHS24, who take your details and a nurse phones back who then tells you to contact the Practice for an appointment. OK a lot of minor stuff is dealt with here but it has reached the stage where my GP practice is considered one of the worst in Lothian and is rarely out of the papers or off social media, and not in a good way.

If people can't get to see their GP then they will continue to use A&E, to the detriment of A&E. This is a balancing act which is currently unbalanced. When I said above that GPs have brought this on themselves I meant because of the way they are paid now. At the Agenda for Change for Change the GPs got a brilliant deal worked out for them which upped their pay a lot and took away out of hours work. All designed the make GP work attractive. What happened in practice, and certainly in my Practice, was the older doctors all retired within a year on a nice new, high pension, the work they left was then taken on by part time doctors who got virtually the same as full time before for much reduced hours. This made it very attractive for women juggling home/work buit it means now that my practice has something like 11 doctors only 2 or 3 are full time, the remainder part time. At a public meeting on the state of the practice they did not show up and the NHS manager refused to give the numbers part time and full time. GPs have come out very well (and are asking for another huge pay rise in this round of talks) but they did so in such a way that the service was not helped at all.

IMO the government needs to get GPs back to having full time doctors as the norm rather than run a service on part timers. Not easy and will no doubt include a nice pay packet in any deal.
 

surfincivi

Clanker
Speaking as a Verdammter Englander living in Scotlandshire, as I'm sure has been said many times before, if nippy wants to guarantee independence, open the franchise, you'll be gone quicker than a quick thing...

It will give another opportunity for an epic whinge of grievance, Sgoatland, taken oot of oor union aginst oor wishes, the tears shed would float a boat...

Personally it would sadden me immensely, I served with some great Scottish colleagues, have been retired here for nearly 15 years and love the place...

But if the option was given to the good burghers of Englandshire after watching impotently from the sidelines for 21 years and listening to the shite and bile spouted...

Don't fancy your chances...

JB

ps. Sufficient warning to liquidate and run away would be appreciated...
Thinking of swapping for a place in England? I am hoping for deportation (from Bristol) if it happens. Do you want the English wife thrown in?
Sweaty Sock in the sauff
 
While everyone’s eye is on the NHS

The polls suggest that FM Nicola Sturgeon will continue to lead Scotland on the road to independence
So for all you little north Britainers start looking southward as your presence oop north will no longer be tolerated

Scotland will have its referendum regardless of PM BJ


52B1C8F2-2D39-45D9-B8EA-063ABB9D42F1.jpeg





Seems the media blackout on the evidence gathered last week into the Salmondgate
Means no salacious stories sold so far
 

Fang_Farrier

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Perhaps this subject needs a thread on its own as it is a subject which is not really Scot Pol but affects everyone.

I totally understand what you are saying and understand the pressures that GPs have been under - much of their own making BTW. Telephone triage has been working in my GP practice for over a year where one phones the surgery, get put through to NHS24, who take your details and a nurse phones back who then tells you to contact the Practice for an appointment. OK a lot of minor stuff is dealt with here but it has reached the stage where my GP practice is considered one of the worst in Lothian and is rarely out of the papers or off social media, and not in a good way.

If people can't get to see their GP then they will continue to use A&E, to the detriment of A&E. This is a balancing act which is currently unbalanced. When I said above that GPs have brought this on themselves I meant because of the way they are paid now. At the Agenda for Change for Change the GPs got a brilliant deal worked out for them which upped their pay a lot and took away out of hours work. All designed the make GP work attractive. What happened in practice, and certainly in my Practice, was the older doctors all retired within a year on a nice new, high pension, the work they left was then taken on by part time doctors who got virtually the same as full time before for much reduced hours. This made it very attractive for women juggling home/work buit it means now that my practice has something like 11 doctors only 2 or 3 are full time, the remainder part time. At a public meeting on the state of the practice they did not show up and the NHS manager refused to give the numbers part time and full time. GPs have come out very well (and are asking for another huge pay rise in this round of talks) but they did so in such a way that the service was not helped at all.

IMO the government needs to get GPs back to having full time doctors as the norm rather than run a service on part timers. Not easy and will no doubt include a nice pay packet in any deal.

One of the issues with GPs up here is that practices vary from extremely busy city practices to some of the most remote and rural in the UK and everything in between.
This is then further complicated as you get GPs who are independent businesses and those who are direct salaried from Health Boards. Some own their own premises, others are in NHS owned buildings. Some employ their own nurses others have such ancillary staff employed by the NHS Board.
As such one contract was never going to fit all but they tried to make it do so.



(The GP contract was not under Agenda for Change, AfC does not cover doctors and dentists, which has led to all sorts of complications over the years)
 

JuniorBod

War Hero
Thinking of swapping for a place in England? I am hoping for deportation (from Bristol) if it happens. Do you want the English wife thrown in?
Sweaty Sock in the sauff
So have you served your full time? You must have committed a most heinous crime to have been sentenced to Bristol AND an English wife.

As I have said before, if it looks like they are anywhere near independence, I will run my English pounds South of the border. If you want to guarantee independence ask the English.

But however it works out, I don't think I've done anything to deserve to be sent to Bristol...

JB
 

Auld-Yin

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One of the issues with GPs up here is that practices vary from extremely busy city practices to some of the most remote and rural in the UK and everything in between.
This is then further complicated as you get GPs who are independent businesses and those who are direct salaried from Health Boards. Some own their own premises, others are in NHS owned buildings. Some employ their own nurses others have such ancillary staff employed by the NHS Board.
As such one contract was never going to fit all but they tried to make it do so.



(The GP contract was not under Agenda for Change, AfC does not cover doctors and dentists, which has led to all sorts of complications over the years)
Agree that Drs etc were not under AfC but their contract was negotiated at the same time and came in just as AfC was being agreed by unions. The GP and Doctors' contracts agreement emptied the money the government had put aside for AfC so the whole process was put back by months until the money could be found.
I was working as a trainer on AfC at the time teaching staff to write their job specs and then teams of people to assess them. It was a vry frustrating time.
 

Auld-Yin

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While everyone’s eye is on the NHS

The polls suggest that FM Nicola Sturgeon will continue to lead Scotland on the road to independence
So for all you little north Britainers start looking southward as your presence oop north will no longer be tolerated

Scotland will have its referendum regardless of PM BJ


View attachment 487268




Seems the media blackout on the evidence gathered last week into the Salmondgate
Means no salacious stories sold so far
Nicola has come through the Covid crisis very well and has, in the main, worked well at it and this has come across well with the voter. However, that is starting to unravel and she is having a much harder time of things at the daily press briefings, plus other non-covid issues are starting to raise their ugly head such as police, education post Covid NHS, never mind the splits in the SNP itself. I have a feeling that Nicola will fight the elections next year as her last election, though standing down for her will be very painful I think she will be forced into it by her Party.
 

Fang_Farrier

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Agree that Drs etc were not under AfC but their contract was negotiated at the same time and came in just as AfC was being agreed by unions. The GP and Doctors' contracts agreement emptied the money the government had put aside for AfC so the whole process was put back by months until the money could be found.
I was working as a trainer on AfC at the time teaching staff to write their job specs and then teams of people to assess them. It was a vry frustrating time.
And since then, AfC 1 has gone as they were below minimal wage.

And we have staff groups trying to get upgraded.
 
Nicola has come through the Covid crisis very well and has, in the main, worked well at it and this has come across well with the voter. However, that is starting to unravel and she is having a much harder time of things at the daily press briefings, plus other non-covid issues are starting to raise their ugly head such as police, education post Covid NHS, never mind the splits in the SNP itself. I have a feeling that Nicola will fight the elections next year as her last election, though standing down for her will be very painful I think she will be forced into it by her Party.
Unless the uk treasury ponies up the money, ScotGov will ask then plead but never beg for sufficient funding to run Scotland
Blaming PM BJ will deflect from all the problems that no money brings to running Scotland
She won’t stand down or retire gracefully she still has to humiliate Salmond to keep him in exile for ever
 
Unless the uk treasury ponies up the money, ScotGov will ask then plead but never beg for sufficient funding to run Scotland
Blaming PM BJ will deflect from all the problems that no money brings to running Scotland
She won’t stand down or retire gracefully she still has to humiliate Salmond to keep him in exile for ever
Think Salmond and Cherry Have other Ideas
 
Another Day another Horlicks as usual the blame will be deflected to Westminster however not having Staff Security vetted prior to implementing the quarantine measures Screams incompetence.
 

Fang_Farrier

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Another Day another Horlicks as usual the blame will be deflected to Westminster however not having Staff Security vetted prior to implementing the quarantine measures Screams incompetence.
It's not security staff but health staff, and the vetting process was by Home Office for access to Home Office network, as such outwith ScotGov's hands.
 

Fang_Farrier

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Nicola has come through the Covid crisis very well and has, in the main, worked well at it and this has come across well with the voter. However, that is starting to unravel and she is having a much harder time of things at the daily press briefings, plus other non-covid issues are starting to raise their ugly head such as police, education post Covid NHS, never mind the splits in the SNP itself. I have a feeling that Nicola will fight the elections next year as her last election, though standing down for her will be very painful I think she will be forced into it by her Party.
Very few politicians ever seem to retire from top office until they either lose an election or the writing is well and truly on the wall for them.

It appears that once they have tasted power, they will do everything to hang onto it with every last fingernail
 
Very few politicians ever seem to retire from top office until they either lose an election or the writing is well and truly on the wall for them.

It appears that once they have tasted power, they will do everything to hang onto it with every last fingernail
Power corrupts, except in Scotland where the idea persists
 

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