Scottish Politics Thread

Auld-Yin

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So they aren't widely discriminated against, regarded as "lesser" by people like @craven50 who hit disagree but don't know why, regarded as "lesser" by several religions, harrassed and imprisoned in multiple countries around the world...?

You can punch up, but never down, as the saying goes.

I like to think that some day, the LGBT will indeed no different from everyone else - and to you, they may not be. But until the point where acceptance is absolute, and descrimination is so insignificant to be unmeasurable, I think we'll need "LGBT Support" groups for teenagers, just like we'll need it pointed out that "isn't it funny how few women or black people get nominated for Oscars" or "wasn't it funny how few Catholics worked in Harland & Wolff"?



Firstly, I clarified between posting and your reply by saying secondary schools. Even the kids' school only does "LGBT Support" in secondary.

Secondly, are you suggesting that "Bible Club" for the happy-clappy brigade should be banned, because they're "the same as any other pseudo-community", and "not different enough to justify a club"? Or "Football Club" for the devotees of wendyball, if their school is rugby-obsessed? What about "Computer Club" for the geeks and nerds, to give them a safe space to share their enjoyment of CPU frequencies and the joys of DDR4, free from the harrassment of the dim-but-sporty?

If the staff and parents think there's a need, and good people exist to help run it, then carry on IMHO...
Is there any group of alleged 'underdogs' that you won't white knight?
 
Men in drag have been on the stage longer than that.

In all guises from sexualised to merely female impersonators.
Even in Shakespeare's time there were no actresses, all parts were played by men, so you could say that men in drag go as far back as the invention of stage acting itself
 
Interesting read from Professor Andreas Rahmatian

Just six words from the article that proves the SNP aren't really serious about joining the EU

There must be a fiscal system
 
So they aren't widely discriminated against, regarded as "lesser" by people like @craven50 who hit disagree but don't know why, regarded as "lesser" by several religions, harrassed and imprisoned in multiple countries around the world...?
Now, here is the telling thing.

Where are all the alphabet soup protesters, holding vigils, marches and parades all over the Middle East, parts of Africa and everywhere else where they are truly discriminated against, harrassed, imprisoned, beaten in the street, sometimes killed and really, really f***ed over ?

For the vast majority of these alphabet soup campaigners, especially in places like the UK, it is nothing more than a platform to say '' Look at me ''
 

Fang_Farrier

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Even in Shakespeare's time there were no actresses, all parts were played by men, so you could say that men in drag go as far back as the invention of stage acting itself
Goes even further back to Ancient Greece
 
But won't they be using the poound with the Bank of England as a the lender of last resort. Thats what Alex said anyway.
They‘ve already had that idea binned off by the UKGOV
 
Is there any group of alleged 'underdogs' that you won't white knight?
I'm not sure whether that's meant to be humorous and light-hearted, or...

If one of your Jocks was going through a hard time of it, and I tried to mix in a witty put-down of your attempts to help with a dismissal of what they were going through, what would you think of me?
 

Auld-Yin

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I'm not sure whether that's meant to be humorous and light-hearted, or...

If one of your Jocks was going through a hard time of it, and I tried to mix in a witty put-down of your attempts to help with a dismissal of what they were going through, what would you think of me?
Quite so, but do you have to do it for the whole world?
 
For the vast majority of these alphabet soup campaigners, especially in places like the UK, it is nothing more than a platform to say '' Look at me ''
Ahhh. Right, so your answer for "the second someone puts their head up, it gets hammered, and everyone just looks on" is "obviously they aren't trying hard enough". Then it's back to comfy denial, because you feel a warm cuddly reassurance that you aren't as much a bigot as everyone keeps telling you.

That fits.

If you haven't got civil rights, you can't protest. Those places in the Middle East have enough problems getting to choose who's in charge (see Iran) with the added joy of worrying about being shot if they dare to protest. Try being LGBT in Russia, if the local bigots don't beat you up, the cops will join in for the most part. The fact that we have got people feeling that they can stand up and complain, says that we're a lot further along the road to treating people equally.

Yeah, "Look at me". You'd probably say that of Sophie Scholl... just a platform, was it? And breathe. Yes, I know, don't feed the trolls, even if they are a bit dim.
 

Dredd

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I'm not sure whether that's meant to be humorous and light-hearted, or...

If one of your Jocks was going through a hard time of it, and I tried to mix in a witty put-down of your attempts to help with a dismissal of what they were going through, what would you think of me?
It's the fact that you are embarking on a crusade and being deliberately provocative, mainly through mis-interpreting / mis-representing what others have said or making assumptions and assertions then arguing from that point of view.

There is no doubt that the world is riddled with prejudice which manifests itself in multiple ways. Often this is based upon fear - of the unknown, of the other, of the future. As humans we are often our own worst enemies.

If any of your people are in need of help and you are in a position of authority you have an obligation to give them that support to the best of your ability. As a person, no matter where you are in the CoC, you have a duty towards others, not just as part of the values and standards but because it is the right thing to do. But each person also needs to take responsibility for themselves.
 
Quite so, but do you have to do it for the whole world?
Did you miss the point where I explained that my youngest son came out to us as LGBT? And that the existence of his school's LGBT Support group had IMHO played a large part in taking a lot of the fear out of it?

It's the fact that you are embarking on a crusade and being deliberately provocative, mainly through mis-interpreting / mis-representing what others have said or making assumptions and assertions then arguing from that point of view.
I'd like to think I haven't misrepresented anything; you explained, very clearly, that you felt: "A rainbow club is for . . . well, what exactly? It's a nonsense and a perpetuation of the victim mentality. We need to be in a special group because we are special, yet our goal is to persuade everyone that we are just people, same as everyone else. The psychology of it all is both fascinating and horrifying in equal measure."

I tried to explain, as clearly as I could, that I felt the opposite. I'd suggest that using adjectives like "nonsense", "victim mentality", "horrifying", is the provocative part.

If any of your people are in need of help and you are in a position of authority you have an obligation to give them that support to the best of your ability. As a person, no matter where you are in the CoC, you have a duty towards others, not just as part of the values and standards but because it is the right thing to do. But each person also needs to take responsibility for themselves.
I absolutely agree with that entire statement. I'd go further, and say that I agree with nearly everything you've said in this debate, whenever you're tried to explain your motives and thoughts. I just think that there's a blind spot there when it comes to LGBT issues, that's all.

Looking at your last sentence, if the kids had set up the LGBT Support Group on their own, would that make its existence acceptable to you?

If one of your people was having a hard time in life because of (say) domestic abuse, would you point them at a support group, or suggest that such groups were a nonsense and that they needed to "take responsibility for themselves"?
 
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Auld-Yin

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Did you miss the point where I explained that my youngest son came out to us as LGBT? And that the existence of his school's LGBT Support group had IMHO played a large part in taking a lot of the fear out of it?
And there you highlight the issue. Because you have a reputation on Arrse for white knighting various factions, when you come up with personal examples your point is weakened.

This is not the first time you have jumped in to an argument claiming the 'high ground', but probably the first where you have personal experience.

The LGBTetc group at your laddies' school worked well for him, and that is good for him, - do you know how or if it affected other students?
 
If you want to cherry pick parts of a comment, 2 can play that game.

If you haven't got civil rights, you can't protest.
That it is why it is incumbent on all those platformers in the UK and elsewhere, to go and protest for those that do not have civil rights.

Still, nice and safe to platform in Scotland where people are pretty much free to live their life.
 
And there you highlight the issue. Because you have a reputation on Arrse for white knighting various factions, when you come up with personal examples your point is weakened.
How weakened? Someone asserts that X is a nonsense, I provided a personal example where I believe that it wasn't.

Now, you can disagree - but if so, why not provide your reasoning rather than just carrying out drive-by smug dismissal?

The LGBTetc group at your laddies' school worked well for him, and that is good for him, - do you know how or if it affected other students?
I suspect it's made very little difference at all to the rest - his older brother is utterly unaffected by the whole thing, never mentioned it once. Who knows, perhaps it's slightly increased the general level of tolerance?
 

Auld-Yin

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Well my point obviously passed over you at about 20,000 feet!

Your posts, whether with personal experience or not are coming over more in the Rabbie's hard bitten wifey style:
"Whare sits our sulky, sullen dame,
Gathering her brows like gathering storm,
Nursing her wrath to keep it warm."​
 
Gove having a wee dig at the YesNP:
 

Dredd

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Gove having a wee dig at the YesNP:
Well said. And the fact he is a Jock must sting even more.

Although as a certain Mod once told us, that may be because he is an Uncle Tom.

Is there a Jockanese version of the term coconut?
 

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