Scottish Politics Thread

Says Nicola: The new ‘IndyRef’ “debate will be based very much on ambition and hope”.

Hope? Well, there’s more of that in the independence movement than there is; energy, talent, creativity, knowledge, common sense, skill, sobriety, cooperation, listening, realism.

Hope coupled with Salmond, Jakeys shouting, waving saltires, wooden shields and unicorns will be a winning combination.....for ‘no’.
 

Auld-Yin

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Ah yes I had a chuckle when I saw that in the depress yesterday. She hasn't learnt yet then. :mrgreen:
Smoke and Mirrors from Sturgeon. I believe this is coming up now to hide the mess that this SNP government has made of running Scotland. The last campaign had Salmod at the helm and he has a lot more politically savvy than Sturgeon plus he knew how to run the economy within the limits of the budget. When he left the Scottish Government were spending within their limitys but since he has left the spending seems to have run out of control.

Last time I voted Yes for Independence and under Salmond I think Scotland could easily have been a success story as an independant nation. Under Sturgeon with her centralisiation and what seem to be more and more socialism styled policies then there is no chance of this government making a success of things. I voted Yes last time, but only just, I would definitely vote No this time round if it came to a referendumas I don't think the SNP have proven they can run the country.

Also, this time Sturgeon will be up against a much more astute and convincing politician in the guise of Ruth Daviodson who more or less wiped Sturgeon's arrse at the last general election.

It is almost as though Nicola wants to step down as FM and can only do so by being beaten in an Indepenedence referendum.

Anyhoo, I can't see this getting any parliamentary time at Westminster as Brexit seems to be filling the parliamenrtaly calendar at present.

I have had several 'discussions' with SNP supporters and none can answer what the benefits are of swapping masters at Westminster for even more dictatorial masters in Brussels. Now that would make for an interesting Border question!

So as I said at the start - Smoke and Mirrors from the SNP.
 
Says Nicola: The new ‘IndyRef’ “debate will be based very much on ambition and hope”.

Hope? Well, there’s more of that in the independence movement than there is; energy, talent, creativity, knowledge, common sense, skill, sobriety, cooperation, listening, realism.

Hope coupled with Salmond, Jakeys shouting, waving saltires, wooden shields and unicorns will be a winning combination.....for ‘no’.
Is this IndyRef still going about wanting to be a vassal of the EU, or has she changed her tune on what independence means ?
 
Smoke and Mirrors from Sturgeon. I believe this is coming up now to hide the mess that this SNP government has made of running Scotland. The last campaign had Salmod at the helm and he has a lot more politically savvy than Sturgeon plus he knew how to run the economy within the limits of the budget. When he left the Scottish Government were spending within their limitys but since he has left the spending seems to have run out of control.

Last time I voted Yes for Independence and under Salmond I think Scotland could easily have been a success story as an independant nation. Under Sturgeon with her centralisiation and what seem to be more and more socialism styled policies then there is no chance of this government making a success of things. I voted Yes last time, but only just, I would definitely vote No this time round if it came to a referendumas I don't think the SNP have proven they can run the country.

Also, this time Sturgeon will be up against a much more astute and convincing politician in the guise of Ruth Daviodson who more or less wiped Sturgeon's arrse at the last general election.

It is almost as though Nicola wants to step down as FM and can only do so by being beaten in an Indepenedence referendum.

Anyhoo, I can't see this getting any parliamentary time at Westminster as Brexit seems to be filling the parliamenrtaly calendar at present.

I have had several 'discussions' with SNP supporters and none can answer what the benefits are of swapping masters at Westminster for even more dictatorial masters in Brussels. Now that would make for an interesting Border question!

So as I said at the start - Smoke and Mirrors from the SNP.
I agree with all that you have said, I know many, family and friends, that voted Yes last time, and like you would change their vote if it comes up again.

She was quick enough to get a report out about the disadvantages of leaving the EU, I bet a pound to a penny that she will not do one for leaving the UK.
 

Auld-Yin

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I agree with all that you have said, I know many, family and friends, that voted Yes last time, and like you would change their vote if it comes up again.

She was quick enough to get a report out about the disadvantages of leaving the EU, I bet a pound to a penny that she will not do one for leaving the UK.
My view of the referendum issue may change if the EU option is dropped, like the hot penny it is.

I am still very much a supporter of a Federal UK in which each country can live as its people wish without being dictated to (too much!) by another. England would, by virtue of being the larger nation, hold sway but there should be sensible vetos put in to ensure that unbalance is not abused.
 
Federal UK hey? FUK does have a ring to it but if it didn't work out we could call it FUK Off.
Trouble is the local government types want devolution for various counties and a federal setup of England, Scotland, Wales and NI would probably be more beneficial. Still have to tilt financial advantage to some areas but it could work. Getting an agreement by all would be the main problem I guess. :cool:
 
The bit I don't get, is if the SNP truly wanted to win a referendum surely they'd push for it to be a UK wide vote thus ensuring they're more likely to win

It's almost like they want to just maintain the status quo, whilst moaning about it and trying to extract more money from the government.....
 

Fang_Farrier

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Is there not some SNP conference coming up when the Deputy leader is be announced? Sturgeon has to be seen to be doing something with regard to Independence with that looming.

IIRC there are 3 candidates each with slightly differing opinions of when the IndyRef2 should take place from before Brexit, to soon to sometime in future.
 
Smoke and Mirrors from Sturgeon. I believe this is coming up now to hide the mess that this SNP government has made of running Scotland. The last campaign had Salmod at the helm and he has a lot more politically savvy than Sturgeon plus he knew how to run the economy within the limits of the budget. When he left the Scottish Government were spending within their limitys but since he has left the spending seems to have run out of control.

Last time I voted Yes for Independence and under Salmond I think Scotland could easily have been a success story as an independant nation. Under Sturgeon with her centralisiation and what seem to be more and more socialism styled policies then there is no chance of this government making a success of things. I voted Yes last time, but only just, I would definitely vote No this time round if it came to a referendumas I don't think the SNP have proven they can run the country.

Also, this time Sturgeon will be up against a much more astute and convincing politician in the guise of Ruth Daviodson who more or less wiped Sturgeon's arrse at the last general election.

It is almost as though Nicola wants to step down as FM and can only do so by being beaten in an Indepenedence referendum.

Anyhoo, I can't see this getting any parliamentary time at Westminster as Brexit seems to be filling the parliamenrtaly calendar at present.

I have had several 'discussions' with SNP supporters and none can answer what the benefits are of swapping masters at Westminster for even more dictatorial masters in Brussels. Now that would make for an interesting Border question!

So as I said at the start - Smoke and Mirrors from the SNP.
An interesting post A_Y. I wonder how many voted yes last time were like you, and voted yes "only just"?
Did the only just bit come from the head or the heart? This is not meant as a dig or a snide comment, but a genuine question. I believe that many Scots voted with their heart last time around. I have said before, as an incomer to Scotland (albeit for over 2 decades) I voted last time purely with my head. I now think that some of the voters like yourself have realised that Scotland is better off in the Union and indyref2 would produce an even bigger No vote.
Obviously things have changed a bit with brexit now taking centre stage, but most intelligent people knew that a yes vote last time round would mean an iScotland leaving the EU anyway. Like I said this is not meant as a dig at you or Yes voters, I am genuinely interested in why you have changed your mind.
 

Auld-Yin

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The main reason for changing my mind had been the attitude of the SNP since the referendum and I don't think they are working in the interests of Scotland as a whole. Salmons was a political animal and knew how to run a government. Nicola S is more a "do as I say" type of leader and is more interested in centralising everything to Hollyrood - too much of a control freak.

Now I realise that things change and had we gone indy then we would still have had to deal with NS but if we did get indy then the SNP would lose a lot of votes as voters return to Tory/Labour making Scotland a genuine three party country needing a lot of compromise to govern. Good for Scotland which, with the SNP having such control is not good. Mind you SNP got their beard singed at the last election. Another thing I did not like is they allowed people to stand as SNP and to come under the SNP whip even though they refused to join the SNP - Jeanne Freeman for one. A full on socialist who as a youngster was on the far left and if not a member of the communist party, then not far off it. The previous SNP MP in my area is another pseudo Nat, George Kerevan who for years was a Labour councillor in Edinburgh; luckily he was emptied last election. It is just a false thing about the SNP which does not garner trust from me.

Also, I still have to have someone explain to me how swapping Westminster for Brussels is an improvement?
 
I also wonder how the progress of Brexit has influenced the marginal yes voters. Brexit has showed that disentanglement from a form of union will not be easy, nor maybe worth the price. A precedent has also been set that those leaving are expected to pay for the privilege, rather than Salmons claim of being owed 12 1/2% of all U.K. geld. Finally, the rUK will go into negotiations with the experienced gained from dealing with the EU - where are Scotland’s experienced negotiators? - and they will be in no mood to be supportive/helpful to Scotland, they will make Barnier look reasonable.
 
How would Scotland even make a case for joining the EU? It would be on it's own until it could generate sufficient surplus to pay the joining fee and thereafter the ongoing and escalating membership fees. It was obvious years ago that pinning hopes on oil revenues was going to lead to disappointment. Tourism that depends on cheap staff from Eastern Europe isn't going to generate the funds needed. NHS, schools, transport infrastructure and emergency services all need investment. No sooner had Donald Dewar managed to get devolved government for Scotland than the priority of the new parliament members was to get a new parliament building. Where the Welsh parliament building came in on budget and schedule, fighting, bickering and idiocy led to a much delayed Scottish parliament building being planted on top of a water source, to a design by a Spanish architect, who likely died due to stress of working on the project, with all the chopping and changing demanded of him. The cost was massively over budget and a huge embarrassment. How is it supposed to represent Scotland and the Scottish people? It doesn't look vaguely Scottish.

Scottish Labour were booted out for arrogance and incompetence. SNP were chosen to replace them. They took that as a sign that the country wanted to leave the Union. Like the EU, they don't like the "wrong answer" in the ballot. Devolved power was never enough for them and yet they expect, nay demand to be trusted to take Scotland out off the Union on the pipe dream of joining the EU and generating another socialist utopia. Oh, sorry Nichola, what did you say? Ahh, it's okay because we won't have technically left the EU?

I wonder how much all those Gaelic signs cost. They are everywhere, even places Gaelic wasn't spoken afaik.
Presumably they want a restoration of feudalism with chosen affiliates and sponsors becoming lairds?
 
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How would Scotland even make a case for joining the EU? It would be on it's own until it could generate sufficient surplus to pay the joining fee and thereafter the ongoing and escalating membership fees. It was obvious years ago that pinning hopes on oil revenues was going to lead to disappointment. Tourism that depends on cheap staff from Eastern Europe isn't going to generate the funds needed. NHS, schools, transport infrastructure and emergency services all need investment. No sooner had Donald Dewar managed to get devolved government for Scotland than the priority of the new parliament members was to get a new parliament building. Where the Welsh parliament building came in on budget and schedule, fighting, bickering and idiocy led to a much delayed Scottish parliament building being planted on top of a water source, to a design by a Spanish architect, who likely died due to stress of working on the project, with all the chopping and changing demanded of him. The cost was massively over budget and a huge embarrassment. How is it supposed to represent Scotland and the Scottish people? It doesn't look vaguely Scottish.

Scottish Labour were booted out for arrogance and incompetence. SNP were chosen to replace them. They took that as a sign that the country wanted to leave the Union. Like the EU, they don't like the "wrong answer" in the ballot. Devolved power was never enough for them and yet they expect, nay demand to be trusted to take Scotland out off the Union on the pipe dream of joining the EU and generating another socialist utopia. Oh, sorry Nichola, what did you say? Ahh, it's okay because we won't have technically left the EU?

I wonder how much all those Gaelic signs cost. They are everywhere, even places Gaelic wasn't spoken afaik.
Presumably they want a restoration of feudalism with chosen affiliates and sponsors becoming lairds?
There are many errors in this post, with the most glaring being the one I have highlighted.. I suggest you do some research before pontificating on something you appear to know nothing about.
 
A lot described is Wales and the Welsh Government. We do have a few nationalists with Aberwrytwth being a hotbed for some reason.
There is no overall enthusiasm for a vote on Wales being independent. Wales as a country I can't see how we could prosper away from England AND Scotland. Thus I think eventually the independence vote will peter out and the Welsh/Scottish Governments being a arm of Westminster. The inroads of Labour folly will eventually smooth out, regional government was only to smooth the way for EU superstate after all.
EDIT im talking 30 to 40 years.
 

Fang_Farrier

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It's a bit like the talking toaster in Red Dwarf, you could be talking about how shockingly bad Audi drivers on the road, and somehow they'd bring it back to freeeeeeeedom!
Excellent article and the view is one I am in total agreement with. I would say though that as he mentions the drop in literacy standards it rings a bit hollow when you spot the literacy errors in his article :)
 

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