Scottish Indyref2

Vote for Scottish Independence now

  • Independence Yes, we want our FREEDOM!!!!

  • Stay part of Boris’ UK non EU love fest

  • (Non Scottish vote 1) Please don’t go Jocky darlings

  • (Non Scottish vote 2) Garn p*ss off, I love car crash telly


Results are only viewable after voting.

HE117

LE
I'd be tempted to give the Scottish government an opportunity to really cock things up and then give a referendum, not on independence but on whether Scotland (and Wales) still want devolved governments.

I'd pay good money to see Sturgeons face when the Scots vote to close Holyrood.

Although I'll admit that there is more chance of the Welsh voting to get rid of theirs.
If you factor in the running costs for the Scottish Parliament, plus a few of the excellently run projects the locals have been involved in, to whit:

1. The costs for the Parliament Buildings (which seem to be in a permanent state of modification/repair..)
2. The Edinburgh Tram farce.
3. Police Scotland.
4. The Forth Crossing.. (Yes I know this has been completed, but just wait, there are some cracking political corpses buried in the concrete, or to be more precise the steel!)

The Scottish Parliament is not much more than a jumped up Toon Cooncil, and scarcely better run! From where I stand, Labour thought it would have a permanent majority north of the border, and this was the basis for the devolution.. stupid, stupid people!

Never forget that the SNP used to be called the "tartan tories" and that the current beast is of a significantly different hue to its original manifestation, brought about by the manipulations of both Salmond and Sturgeon.

Boris must learn the lessons from Thatcher, who made the fundamental mistake of not understanding that Scotland is legally and bureaucratically a different country. In the old days, much of Scottish business was carried out through the Scottish Office using existing Scottish Legal processes. Thatcher's government pulled many of these responsibilities into London based offices, and took powers that had never been held south of the border since the Union. This alienated a wide swathe of Scottish bureaucracy against the Conservatives and pushed them initially into the Labour camp and subsequently across to the SNP.

IMHO the whole devolution thing has been a bonfire of the vanities, egged on to a great extend by the Scottish Civil Service.. Boris may just like to think about this when taking a much needed scythe to the civil service!

Just noted that DFID (aka the "keep that bloody Short woman occupied department") is to be returned to the FO! Excellent work Boris.. on! on!

You can start by telling the "The Scottish Government" to rename itself back to "The Scottish Office"!
 
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Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
If we're playing independence Top Trumps, I'm playing the Michel Gove card.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/15/michael-gove-absolutely-rules-second-independence-referendum/
Michael Gove has given an unequivocal pledge the UK Government will refuse to hand Nicola Sturgeon the powers for another independence referendum this week despite her claims that the SNP election landslide in Scotland will force Boris Johnson to capitulate.
It means Wee Krankie will go on being a whining, screechy thing, but she's going to get F-all change out of BoJo.

Wordsmith
 
Same answer like the first time this referendum raised its ugly head.

I'll take independence if it's a real independence. As in, we cut out our Defence, NHS, Pensions, Transportation, everything. And we truly go it alone.

Until that boot Sturgeon has the guts to create a referendum on that, then let's call it what it is. A waste of time and money. And forget it.
From what I saw from England during Indyref basically the Yes campaign said that England would still be paying for everything if they left. The No campaign said that we would give you even more goodies if you stayed. Then they wheeled out Gordon Brown to promise even more English money. This is what has turned us against Scotland.

I wonder what the result would have been if there was a bit of financial honesty? No saying that if you left you would lose out massively and if you stayed you would not get an extra penny but would keep what you had.
 
If Boris doesnae **** up in the next parliament I will be putting money on the Scottish Tories making a significant comeback.
Why not just say outright that you've no intention of wagering?
 

Nemesis44UK

LE
Book Reviewer
Gen questions -

1. If Scotland wants independence, why then, does it want to be tied to the EU?

2. If the EU has unequivocally said it doesn't want Scotland, why is Scotland trying to join?
 
The fact that I posted this in the NAAFI says it all, japes and jingos aside, interesting that even among the Arrsers here, only 4 people have voted to get the feck outta Dodge thus far, is that a true reflection of Scotland? Is it because, as many Jocks have already stated, out doesn’t mean out, given Wee Crankie wants to jump straight back into the EU?
Personally I really am looking forward to hearing all those north of the border moaning about Wee Jimmy moaning and stamping her feet because she wants her way and Bojo swatting her away like a fly hovering around a rhino turd
 
The fact that I posted this in the NAAFI says it all, japes and jingos aside, interesting that even among the Arrsers here, only 4 people have voted to get the feck outta Dodge thus far, is that a true reflection of Scotland? Is it because, as many Jocks have already stated, out doesn’t mean out, given Wee Crankie wants to jump straight back into the EU?
Personally I really am looking forward to hearing all those north of the border moaning about Wee Jimmy moaning and stamping her feet because she wants her way and Bojo swatting her away like a fly hovering around a rhino turd
The slightly longer running thread instigated by @Fang_Farrier usefully covers local council, ScotGov and Westminster aspects for us to discuss…..the fact that @Sixty is the token nationalist works. His naivety is reminiscent of a 14 yr old accepting a lift from a Rochdale taxi driver…..
We have them up here too, Polis Scotland are adept when it comes to dealing with them.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Odious Gove has said no!
 

HE117

LE
Gen questions -

1. If Scotland wants independence, why then, does it want to be tied to the EU?

2. If the EU has unequivocally said it doesn't want Scotland, why is Scotland trying to join?
Please understand, this has nothing to do with the average punter.. the "Scotland" that you refer to is the one projected to the media by the current bunch of politicians..

At least three referendums have declared that the people of Scotland do not wish to leave the Union!

From an economic perspective, Scotland is not a viable independent going concern, and therefore needs to lock on to a suitable "donor". In the UK model, this is the UK, however this is controlled from London.. it was not until UK joined the EU that the politicos in Scotland saw a way of bypassing London, and getting funded from Brussels, and hence lobbied for devolved authority, which Labour stupidly gave them, thinking that it was a route to permanent majority. Leaving the EU effectively shoots the Nationalist goose as they need to find a source of subsidy if they break up the union. The EU, I suggest, does not wish to acquire another revenue negative country..!

Nichola is caught in a trap! She cannot admit she does not want Independence as it would lose her popular support, yet she could not sustain it if she actually achieved it. Much better for her to keep Boris as the duty Bogieman to blame for all the ills that her hapless administration has created. This is the Scottish Way!

I am a committed Scotsman, and am very proud of my country, and what it's people have achieved. The Scots as individuals have contributed immensely to the Union, particularly in the realms of science, engineering and administration. We are not, however good at administering ourselves! It is crystal clear from our history that we have a national blind spot when it comes to choosing our leaders and running our country! Everyone and everything from Charles Edward Stewart and the Darien Colony to Nichola and the Bloody Trams demonstrates that whilst we can build anything from the US University system to the Indian Railways, we are useless on our own turf, and that we are at our best when there is someone else to blame..

...Boris will do nicely, as Nicola surely knows, and in reality her pronouncements are a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, and signifying nothing.
 
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Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
The fact that I posted this in the NAAFI says it all, japes and jingos aside, interesting that even among the Arrsers here, only 4 people have voted to get the feck outta Dodge thus far, is that a true reflection of Scotland? Is it because, as many Jocks have already stated, out doesn’t mean out, given Wee Crankie wants to jump straight back into the EU?
Personally I really am looking forward to hearing all those north of the border moaning about Wee Jimmy moaning and stamping her feet because she wants her way and Bojo swatting her away like a fly hovering around a rhino turd
The Scottish Politics thread has shown itself to mainly be an echo chamber of a Unionist slant as could be expected from a UK military site.

On a health forum I am a member of, on a similar political thread there is mainly support for SNP and is Independence leaning.

Thinking of my workplace, the majority were/still are pro independence.
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
The Scottish Politics thread has shown itself to mainly be an echo chamber of a Unionist slant as could be expected from a UK military site.
Yep. Unionist circle-jerk as I noted earlier. It's pretty pointless posting there unless you subscribe to the group think. Essentially a forerunner of any single Brexit thread on here.
 
If you voted for chalk and were given cheese, would you expect to have to just put up with the result or would you want another say on the proposed cheese-based future?
Depends whether you live in a democracy or a dictatorship,
Democracy - yep, shut-up you lost the vote
Dictatorship - plot a coup, rally your troops, take over the tv & radio stations, surround the government buildings and hey presto - get the result you want even though you are in the minority!
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Depends whether you live in a democracy or a dictatorship,
Democracy - yep, shut-up you lost the vote
Dictatorship - plot a coup, rally your troops, take over the tv & radio stations, surround the government buildings and hey presto - get the result you want even though you are in the minority!
And in a democracy you get to vote over and over again hence 3 general elections in 4 years.
Until the Conservatives got the result they wanted.
And they seem to be in power with a minority of the electorate actually voting for them.
And that is especially true for Scotland.
 

HE117

LE
And in a democracy you get to vote over and over again hence 3 general elections in 4 years.
Until the Conservatives got the result they wanted.
And they seem to be in power with a minority of the electorate actually voting for them.
And that is especially true for Scotland.
Yeah...

But you could make this accusation of any democratic system.. it's just where you want to draw the boundary!

In an independent Scotland, policies and advantage would be dictated by the wishes of Greater Glasgow! The Highlands would be left to rot and no opportunity would be lost to "pit the heid" on Edinburgh!

Everything is a dictatorship at the end of the day.. the best you can do is to encourage the dictator to behave honourably! The only difference between a true dictatorship and the democratic version is that the transitions are hopefully less bloody and more frequent.

As politicians, it is in truth for glory, riches, and honours that they are fighting, not for freedom -- which no politician or official can allow!

Democracy is the worst of all systems of Government, until you compare it with the alternatives! (WSC)
 
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Oh do fuck off. We have had a vote and it is about time the whingers accepted the result.
Good luck with that. Even now some remoaners won't accept the fact that the majority of the UK want out of the EU.
All joking aside, the view south of the border is that if the Scots really do want their independence then let them have it.
Down south, there is no voice standing up for Scottish Unionists.
Maybe, if PMBJ is sincere in his belief of the union, then he will give voice to the Scottish unionist cause.
 

Nemesis44UK

LE
Book Reviewer
Please understand, this has nothing to do with the average punter.. the "Scotland" that you refer to is the one projected to the media by the current bunch of politicians..

At least three referendums have declared that the people of Scotland do not wish to leave the Union!

From an economic perspective, Scotland is not a viable independent going concern, and therefore needs to lock on to a suitable "donor". In the UK model, this is the UK, however this is controlled from London.. it was not until UK joined the EU that the politicos in Scotland saw a way of bypassing London, and getting funded from Brussels, and hence lobbied for devolved authority, which Labour stupidly gave them, thinking that it was a route to permanent majority. Leaving the EU effectively shoots the Nationalist goose as they need to find a source of subsidy if they break up the union. The EU, I suggest, does not wish to acquire another revenue negative country..!

Nichola, I suggest is caught in a real trap! She cannot admit she does not want Independence as it would lose her popular support, yet she could not sustain it if she actually achieved it. Much better for her to keep Boris as the duty Bogieman to blame for all the ills that her hapless administration has created. This is the Scottish Way!

I am a committed Scotsman, and am very proud of my country, and what it's people have achieved. The Scots as individuals have contributed immensely to the Union, particularly in the realms of science, engineering and administration. We are not, however good at administering ourselves! It is crystal clear from our history that we have a national blind spot when it comes to choosing our leaders and running our country! Every thing from Charles Edward Stewart and the Darien Colony to Nichola and the bloody Trams, demonstrates that whilst we can build anything from the US University system to the Indian Railways, we are useless on our own turf, and that we are at our best when there is someone else to blame..

...Boris will do nicely, as Nicola surely knows, and in reality her pronouncements are a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, and signifying nothing.
Many thanks for your informative post. I’m well aware that my knowledge on this subject is filtered through an English bias-glass.
 

Nemesis44UK

LE
Book Reviewer
Yep. Unionist circle-jerk as I noted earlier. It's pretty pointless posting there unless you subscribe to the group think. Essentially a forerunner of any single Brexit thread on here.
Is there any truth, then, that Scotland plc is running at a 12 billion pound p/a deficit? That would seem to indicate that should Scotland become independent, it would cause quite a financial issue.
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Is there any truth, then, that Scotland plc is running at a 12 billion pound p/a deficit? That would seem to indicate that should Scotland become independent, it would cause quite a financial issue.
No one - not a single person, be they an economist or anything else, knows what Scotland's alleged deficit is. Not one. You may challenge me all you like on this but you'd still be wrong or an astrologist.
 

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