Scottish Independence Referendum II

#2
Indeed we must!

It appears the central question now is what Salmond hopes to achieve.
Is he trying to con his way into devomax as his best realistic hope or is he trying to manipulate the result in favour of independence by creating a three question referendum and splitting the vote enough to get his way?
 
#3
Or is he taking a long term approach of gradually building experience of true governance to the point that eventually the wecannaedaeits won't have a leg to stand on?

Playing the long game isn't entirely out if the question. Maybe that's why cmd is so keen to force the pace.

If it's been sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk then I'm probably pissed.
 
#4
Or is he taking a long term approach of gradually building experience of true governance to the point that eventually the wecannaedaeits won't have a leg to stand on?

Playing the long game isn't entirely out if the question. Maybe that's why cmd is so keen to force the pace.

If it's been sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk then I'm probably pissed.
The polls are clear, support for independence in Scotland is running at 29%
Salmond may be a tosser (he's a politician after all) but he can see what is infront of his nose. He has two options infront of him, devomax or some kind of campaign to win independence by splitting the vote.
As much as I dislike Cameron he is quite right, the only fair and just option is to offer the Scots electorate a clear and simple referendum between staying in the Union or leaving.
"devomax" is a different issue which should be settled seperatley from an independence referendum.
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#5
As much as I dislike Cameron he is quite right, the only fair and just option is to offer the Scots electorate a clear and simple referendum between staying in the Union or leaving.
.
Makes you wonder why he didn't push for it when the SNP were running a minority administration and the Tories (and Labour and the Libs) voted down a referendum twice doesn't it?*

*Answer, no, it really doesn't. The sudden enthusiasm for 'fairness' appears to tie in with him fearing that there's a chance the SNP might win if allowed to run it on their own terms and now 'fair and just' are the words du jour.
 
#6
To keep up with the ocasional stupid post mixed into the thread I figure if the SNP were to organise the whole thing the word freedom and a picture of mel gibson would end up on the ballot paper.
 
#7
Makes you wonder why he didn't push for it when the SNP were running a minority administration and the Tories (and Labour and the Libs) voted down a referendum twice doesn't it?*

*Answer, no, it really doesn't. The sudden enthusiasm for 'fairness' appears to tie in with him fearing that there's a chance the SNP might win if allowed to run it on their own terms and now 'fair and just' are the words du jour.
Could that be because at that time even less people in Scotland wanted it? Now that he has a bit more support, its time to relook at it.
 
#11
Or is he taking a long term approach of gradually building experience of true governance to the point that eventually the wecannaedaeits won't have a leg to stand on?

Playing the long game isn't entirely out if the question. Maybe that's why cmd is so keen to force the pace.

If it's been sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk then I'm probably pissed.
Perhaps - but at some point he's going to have to tackle external issues (diplomacy, defence, security, etc) and I'm not sure how gradualism works for those - does anybody? But then I'm a dinnaewanttaedoit.

And typing this a sudden thought came to me - who is going to pay my army pension in 2017?
 
#13
Makes you wonder why he didn't push for it when the SNP were running a minority administration and the Tories (and Labour and the Libs) voted down a referendum twice doesn't it?*

*Answer, no, it really doesn't. The sudden enthusiasm for 'fairness' appears to tie in with him fearing that there's a chance the SNP might win if allowed to run it on their own terms and now 'fair and just' are the words du jour.
Doesn't make me wonder at all really Sixty. I have yet to see a politician do anything that is motivated by anything other than self interest.
I'm strongly opposed to breaking up the Union but as I don't live in Scotland I'm highly unlikely to get a say.

However, the question remains, Salmond cannot get a result in favour of independence in a straight vote and he knows it. The polls are unequivical on that one. So what is it he is really trying to achieve.
Logically he can only be aiming to achieve one of two things, devomax or a manipulated result by means of skulduggery. Slamond might be an astute politician but the Scots deserve a clear and fair referendum to have their say. What the SNP appear to be aiming for is a way to split the referndum vote and magically turn 29% support into 51%
I appreciate thoise who support independence will be happy however the SNP manage to make it happen but its to important an question for politicians to be allowed to manipulate the result.

If there is to be a referendum make it yes or no. The devomax bollox can be decided after.
 
#14
I'm loving this!

Even if Cameron loses, the result is 41 less Labour MP's in the Houses of Parliament, and less Lib Dems.

We keep hearing that every time Cameron speaks, the SNP wins more votes - well, who from? Its not like he's losing Conservative voters up there, is it? Nope, he's weakening Labour, again, a win Scenario.

So - lose the referendum and Cameron virtually guarantees a Conservative majority in the next election. Whats he got to lose?

Win the referendum on the issue of independence on a single yes/no referendum , and he kills Devomax, as there is "no mandate from the people for a change in the constitutional settlement"
 
#15
The idealist and romantic in me would love to see an independent Scotland, the realist in me worries about it.

I think Cameron has only now realised what was blatantly obvious to most of us, that 2014 is the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn.

Wee Eck has had this up his sleeve for a while now and until Cameron tried to force his hand, avoided any reference to it.

Cameron knows it'll be used shamelessly that year. It'll be trumpeted everywhere (before and during the Commonwealth Games) and you'll see Jock Jingoism on an unimaginable level, with a swing in support that'll see independence become a reality.

I wonder if Morningside and the Grange will be partitioned?
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
To keep up with the ocasional stupid post mixed into the thread I figure if the SNP were to organise the whole thing the word freedom and a picture of mel gibson would end up on the ballot paper.
That's the SNP's plan have it in 2014 whilst the Commonwealth games and the anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn are underway.
Salmond knows that nothing reinvigerates his case than Nationalisim.
I was reading the other day that pre 78 World Cup when Allys Army were going to win it the SNP were riding high.
Two games later and they couldn't buy a vote

Look at how it gained momentum again during Bravehearts run.
Notice how Cameron has became Thatcher in speaches from Scottish MSP's and how al the scots are running barefoot because the nasty English nicked their oil.

It could be win win for Cameron.
They have the vote and the SNP wins
Cameron gives Salmond his independance and advices them to reapply and join the Euro.
Here's your oil revenue, The Scots Guards, that Tornadoa at Lossie and those Two Chally tanks the Cavalry boys have and we'll have our subsidy back.
Germany see's another struggling economy applying to join the Euro exposes the gaps in Salmonds figure and **** him off.
Cameron puts his arm round Scotland and invites it to reapply to join the Union whilst pointing out all that money we used to send is now supporting China's new F1 track.
Jocks decide whether to stay skint and stranded outside the Euro and the Union and still able to paint their faces and shout Freedom every 5 minutes or get back in.
Cameron meanwhile is the man who****ed both Scotland and the Europeans - Tories vote for him like mad.

The Jocks vote No and Cameron wins.
The SNP gets wiped out no point being a Nationalist Party when they don't want it.
Cameron meanwhile is the man who****ed Salmond once and for all and the Europeans - Tories vote for him like mad.

It works for Salmond he promises the Jocks everything without actually gambling on asking them if they want it.
His biggest supporter is Sean Connery who'll do everything for Scottish Independance except live there
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#17
The idealist and romantic in me would love to see an independent Scotland, the realist in me worries about it.

I think Cameron has only now realised what was blatantly obvious to most of us, that 2014 is the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn.

Wee Eck has had this up his sleeve for a while now and until Cameron tried to force his hand, avoided any reference to it.

Cameron knows it'll be used shamelessly that year. It'll be trumpeted everywhere (before and during the Commonwealth Games) and you'll see Jock Jingoism on an unimaginable level, with a swing in support that'll see independence become a reality.

I wonder if Morningside and the Grange will be partitioned?
Don't forget that 2014 is a Year of Homecoming so the country will be overflowing with tartan, bagpipes and haggis!
 
#18
The idealist and romantic in me would love to see an independent Scotland, the realist in me worries about it.

I think Cameron has only now realised what was blatantly obvious to most of us, that 2014 is the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn.

Wee Eck has had this up his sleeve for a while now and until Cameron tried to force his hand, avoided any reference to it.

Cameron knows it'll be used shamelessly that year. It'll be trumpeted everywhere (before and during the Commonwealth Games) and you'll see Jock Jingoism on an unimaginable level, with a swing in support that'll see independence become a reality.

I wonder if Morningside and the Grange will be partitioned?
On the other hand he might overcook it and suffer a 'oh-I-am-so-fcuking-sick-to-death-o-hearing-this-shite-give-it-a-rest-will-ya' public backlash.
 

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