SCOTS headdress

#1
Fellas,

I've just posted the photos of the SCOTS headdress as agreed so far.

They and the TRF can be viewed at: http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/coppermine/displayimage/album=10/pos=0.html

So what?

Glengarry. Each battalion will wear their current glengarry, 1 and 2 SCOTS will wear lowland pattern (1 SCOTS will wear cock feathers), 3 and 4 SCOTS will wear the highland pattern and 5 SCOTS will wear the AandSH pattern. 6 and 7 SCOTS coys will wear glengarries depending on current affiliation.

TOS. All TOS will have a patch of Govt Tartan 1A with a hackle worn behind the badge: Black, White, Red and Blue (Colour Unknown for 5 SCOTS).

TRF. All will wear the same TRF.

When you serve at E you will wear the headdress of the battalion you first served with, to be known as your parent battalion. When you serve in another battalion in the Regt you will wear that battalion's headdress.
 
#2
By Lowland pattern Glengarry I assume you mean red white and black dicing, and highland pattern plain dark blue?

I never thought of the glengarry with red white and black dicing as being strictly "lowland".
It was the Glengarry of the Seaforths and Gordons also.

I would think 5 Scots would wear a white hackle, as that is the traditional hackle colour of their feather bonnet. Unless someone decides each Bn must have a different colour. Then what? red over white, yellow? A yellow hackle may have Argyllshire lineage?


I'm guessing 3SCOTS will wear the current BW balmoral, or will they all now wear the glengarry?

Anyway, thanks for the update.
 
#3
The glengarry worn by RS. RHF and KOSB is for some reason known as glengarry RHF, the dicing is red, white and green (not black). The dicing on the glengarry worn by the Gordons was red, white and blue (I think the Seaforth's was also).
I have no idea why the Lowland regiments dicing was green or the Highland blue one would think it should be the other way round given that the senior regiments are Royal.

barbs thanks for the info'. What happened to the 'One Regiment' concept? Different headdress indeed, should've all been the same. Now we know why the Black Watch were told to stop campaigning!
 
#4
RCSignals said:
I'm guessing 3SCOTS will wear the current BW balmoral, or will they all now wear the glengarry?
Yes, I think they will be wearing the balmoral (I assume with the cap badge over the hackle, but I don't know).

The headdress issues were agreed by the Army Dress Committee on 27 Oct 05.
 
#5
Busterdog said:
The glengarry worn by RS. RHF and KOSB is for some reason known as glengarry RHF, the dicing is red, white and green (not black). The dicing on the glengarry worn by the Gordons was red, white and blue (I think the Seaforth's was also).
I have no idea why the Lowland regiments dicing was green or the Highland blue one would think it should be the other way round given that the senior regiments are Royal.

barbs thanks for the info'. What happened to the 'One Regiment' concept? Different headdress indeed, should've all been the same. Now we know why the Black Watch were told to stop campaigning!
I understand that the cap badge was the most important theme to be carried through, and that an original thought had been to add roman numerals to the TRF to denote bn. When the ADC publishes its decisions/minutes the explanation will be clearer.

I further understand that the historical adviser to the ADC has put a halt to much of the one regiment theme, rather than the regiment doing so. Two particular areas are of interest in this respect: the black buttons on spats were unanimously declared to be difficult but workable, but the historian insisted they be kept, likewise the regiment proposed a modern material to be adopted for cross belts and buff belts rather than buff... which the historian rejected.

I await the minutes with interest!
 
#7
Busterdog said:
The glengarry worn by RS. RHF and KOSB is for some reason known as glengarry RHF, the dicing is red, white and green (not black). The dicing on the glengarry worn by the Gordons was red, white and blue (I think the Seaforth's was also).
I have no idea why the Lowland regiments dicing was green or the Highland blue one would think it should be the other way round given that the senior regiments are Royal.

barbs thanks for the info'. What happened to the 'One Regiment' concept? Different headdress indeed, should've all been the same. Now we know why the Black Watch were told to stop campaigning!
The only glengarry I've seen that actually had red, white and green dicing was that of the Glasgow Bn HLI (9th ?).
The HLI itself wore a dark blue glengarry.

Dicing of the Gordons and Seaforths is(was) certainly more black than blue. It's apparent against the dark blue body.

In the end it probably doesn't matter.
 
#8
barbs said:
I further understand that the historical adviser to the ADC has put a halt to much of the one regiment theme, rather than the regiment doing so. Two particular areas are of interest in this respect: the black buttons on spats were unanimously declared to be difficult but workable, but the historian insisted they be kept, likewise the regiment proposed a modern material to be adopted for cross belts and buff belts rather than buff... which the historian rejected.

I await the minutes with interest!
Probably a one Regiment theme would be better in the long run.

If by 'modern material' for crossbelts and buff belts they meant 'plastic', I agree with the historian. Buff is much better, even though plastic has been used in other belt applications.
Buff belts have been being surplussed by the bus load lately though.

So what will the spats be? square toe with black buttons?
 
#9
It's not really going to be one regiment, it's already being diluted. All the 'powers that be' have succeeded in doing is put everyone back in Government tartan (albeit the A&SH version), reintroduce an incarnation of the old Brigade capbadges and amalgamate two fine regiments. Each of the Bns will refer to themselves by their former names, with the exception of 1SCOTS who will probably be known as Borderers (except to the few remaining Royals). The situation will exist untill the next round of cuts when 5SCOTS will be offed.

Forgive the cynicism though I believe the opportunity to quickly instill the 'One Regiment' mindset crucial to the success of the SCOTS was lost when uniformity went out the window of the dining room at Crazy Hall on 27th October. If it's going to be ONE regiment it has to be ONE uniform. The old regiment's histories shall be carried on with the colours of the new (though selecting Battle Honours will be a nightmare e.g. Is Kowang San more significant than Pak Chon or The Hook? And thats just the Korean War!).

BTW it's Blackcock feather let's not get too carried away with the PC thing!
 
#10
Busterdog said:
It's not really going to be one regiment, it's already being diluted. All the 'powers that be' have succeeded in doing is put everyone back in Government tartan (albeit the A&SH version), reintroduce an incarnation of the old Brigade capbadges and amalgamate two fine regiments. Each of the Bns will refer to themselves by their former names, with the exception of 1SCOTS who will probably be known as Borderers (except to the few remaining Royals). The situation will exist untill the next round of cuts when 5SCOTS will be offed.

Forgive the cynicism though I believe the opportunity to quickly instill the 'One Regiment' mindset crucial to the success of the SCOTS was lost when uniformity went out the window of the dining room at Crazy Hall on 27th October. If it's going to be ONE regiment it has to be ONE uniform. The old regiment's histories shall be carried on with the colours of the new (though selecting Battle Honours will be a nightmare e.g. Is Kowang San more significant than Pak Chon or The Hook? And thats just the Korean War!).

BTW it's Blackcock feather let's not get too carried away with the PC thing!
Busterdog - the PC aoutmatically starred out the ock in that particular word - I will edit to adjust!

RCSignals - The spats will be those worn by the HLDRS at the moment.
 
#11
Busterdog said:
The situation will exist untill the next round of cuts when 5SCOTS will be offed.
Possibly, but far more likely first cut is the reserve element to become 7th/8th Bn. Unless the spare Comd earning Appts and the Comd itself are needed as a pressure valve for Regular Offrs in need of a career transfusion in which case Coy+ Sized Bns with Sect+ Dets to "maintain the recruiting footprint" across as wide a geographical spread as possible. Not that that's happening already or anything....

Cynical? Moi? Why wouldn't you want to abandon strength and reinforce weakness?
 
#12
abacus said:
Cynical? Moi? Why wouldn't you want to abandon strength and reinforce weakness?
It's the 'way forward' ...............apparently
 
#15
barbs said:
Glengarry. Each battalion will wear their current glengarry, 1 and 2 SCOTS will wear lowland pattern (1 SCOTS will wear c*** feathers), 3 and 4 SCOTS will wear the highland pattern and 5 SCOTS will wear the AandSH pattern. 6 and 7 SCOTS coys will wear glengarries depending on current affiliation.

TOS. All TOS will have a patch of Govt Tartan 1A with a hackle worn behind the badge: Black, White, Red and Blue (Colour Unknown for 5 SCOTS).
The ECAB have overturned this decision:

‘dress should largely be common across a Regiment, and that some of the ‘golden threads’ from antecedent regiments can be preserved in new uniforms, where practical and desirable ….. and that all Battalions within a new Regiment are to have the same base uniform, with only minor variations such as lanyards and hackles where necessary to maintain the ‘golden thread’ ...

therefore:

in Barrack, No2 and No1 Dress we will all wear the diced Glengarry currently worn by the Lowland Regiments, along with a Black Cock feather on ceremonial dress.

Stable belt will be Government 1A tartan - as worn by AandSH.

AandSH hackle will be 'badger hair'.
 
#17
Jagythistle said:
I assume Companies in 6 & 7 SCOTS will wear the bunnet of their regular "parent" Battalion or are these going to be standardised??
CS95 will be Regimental TOS with Bn hackles: No1 and No 2 dress will be Regimental Glengarry with badge and cockfeathers.
 
#18
What? You mean you didn't anticipate this? Jackson & Co were shooting for one regiment all along. Poor old Irwin had his blue bonnet pulled over his eyes. "Yes of course Ally you'll get to keep your red hackle now sign here." Now the chief collaborator in the demise of the Scottish Regiments is crying "Foul!"

So SD/No2 Dress will be:-

Diced Glengarry (RHF) with blackcock feather (Scots/Borderers)
Kilt No 1A tartan (A&SH)
Spats black buttons (?) (Highlanders)
Sporran (BW)?
Seems pretty fair.

Rumblings about the adoption across the board of the 'Lowland' glengarry? Please! Think of the Lowland regiments forced to wear a kilt. At one time the majority of Scottish regiments both Highland and Lowland wore the diced glengarry., RS, RSF, KOSB, Seaforth, Gordons. HLI and Camerons wore a black glengarry, Cameronians rifle green and BW a blue bonnet though in certain orders of dress a black glengarry. A&SH wore a red and white diced glengarry.

One uniform common to all SCOTS Bns is the only way to go.
 
#19
Busterdog said:
What? You mean you didn't anticipate this? Jackson & Co were shooting for one regiment all along. Poor old Irwin had his blue bonnet pulled over his eyes. "Yes of course Ally you'll get to keep your red hackle now sign here." Now the chief collaborator in the demise of the Scottish Regiments is crying "Foul!"

So SD/No2 Dress will be:-

Diced Glengarry (RHF) with blackcock feather (Scots/Borderers)
Kilt No 1A tartan (A&SH)
Spats black buttons (?) (Highlanders)
Sporran (BW)?
Seems pretty fair.

Rumblings about the adoption across the board of the 'Lowland' glengarry? Please! Think of the Lowland regiments forced to wear a kilt. At one time the majority of Scottish regiments both Highland and Lowland wore the diced glengarry., RS, RSF, KOSB, Seaforth, Gordons. HLI and Camerons wore a black glengarry, Cameronians rifle green and BW a blue bonnet though in certain orders of dress a black glengarry. A&SH wore a red and white diced glengarry.

One uniform common to all SCOTS Bns is the only way to go.
There is not much surprise that the 'golden threads' are tarnishing.

Busterdog, I don't believe anyone ever wore a "black" glengarry. Always dark blue, like the top of the diced glengarry.
HLI, Camerons, and BW wore the blue Glengarry. Camerons and BW without the black silk ribbon cockade, I think the HLI without as well, but not sure.
At one time it was common for all ranks of the BW to were a glengarry, not just the Officers and Pipers. I'm not sure when the blue bonnet and red hackle became the lone head dress for ORs, but think it was after WW1.

The red and white dicing of the A+SH (infact the whole uniform) came from the Sutherland Highlanders.
In recent years many of the A+SH kilts have actually been made from no 1 tartan rather than no 1A. (probably a cost thing, like substituting a BW blue bonnet for the red and white diced bonnet). So it seems odd that tartan no1A is now the "picked one"

Government tartan no 1 at one time was the common tartan for all Scottish Regiments, and is to this day the most popular tartan in the world.
Contrary to claims of the Campbell's it is not originally a Campbell tartan.
 
#20
Busterdog said:
............... Poor old Irwin had his blue bonnet pulled over his eyes. "Yes of course Ally you'll get to keep your red hackle now sign here." Now the chief collaborator in the demise of the Scottish Regiments is crying "Foul!"

.......................
.
General in about-turn on merger of Scots regiments
The Scotsman - 25/11/05 - FRASER NELSON - POLITICAL EDITOR

THE military architect of the drive to amalgamate Scotland's regiments has turned against the plan, after realising the Black Watch has been betrayed over a promise to let the regiments retain their cherished head-dress.

Lieutenant-General Sir Alistair Irwin, who as colonel of the Black Watch wrote a 14-page document recommending the merger of the regiments three years ago, is now asking the governments to revoke the move, saying it has invoked a "sense of gloom".


Until this year, Sir Alistair was Scotland's Adjutant-General, who chaired the Scottish colonels group.

His opposition will reopen bitter arguments about the merger of the regiments.

Sir Alistair has said he only recently learnt that the regiments had been told they cannot retain their historic caps and badges.

"It overturns the agreement we thought we had, allowing the regiments to retain their traditional head-dress," he told a newspaper.

"That, in our case, means the red hackle, which is a cherished icon, a visible symbol recognised throughout the world and respected, not just by the regiment but by the whole army.

"Up until now we have been doing quite well, bringing everyone along with the plans. We had a kilted regiment, the red hackle, and we retained our local links which are so important to us."

This, he said, had soothed the road to amalgamation.

But last week the Army Board said the new regiment would wear the same head- dress when on parade.

To Sir Alistair, who was arguing only last year that the army needed to "restructure for the 21st century", this was the last straw.
 

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