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Scotland & Independence

Most of this is in the Scottish Politics thread and I've posted this there, but, the missus and I have been talking. She owns a fully mortgage paid 18th century 4 bed home which is a beautiful place. It's basically her pension pot. We've spoke for a while about leaving Scotland if it looks like the worst comes to the worst and the SNP get their way and before the house has the worth of a somalian mud hut in iScotland, as who the feck will want to, or be able to afford to buy a house here?
We've mentioned this on and off over the past couple of years, but we're so sick of this now especially since even with the pandemic going on, that little ginger headed tw@t is still banging the independence drum while people die, we decided that if the SNP get another majority in May, we start the plans to leave Scotland. She's happy with that as she's a pads brat and used to moving around, and me? Well, I've spent more of my life out of Scotland than in it due to army life so I couldn't care less if I'm here or not.

I doubt very much if this will be an individual case, I'm pretty sure that those that are able, will leave Scotland. Big business up here has already stated that they will leave an independent Scotland. That will leave those that aren't able or cant afford to leave, those that are not really bothered, and the Cult of Sturgeon. I really think an iScotland will be a horrendous country to live in for years to come. No money, no jobs, no business, no Barnett formula and more benefit claimers than workers to pay the extortionate tax levels they'll need to raise money.
They're welcome to it. A country gets the government it deserves.
 
The thing is, we don't feel the love south of the border. All the news is wee Jimmie Crankie and her whinning voice going on about an Independent Scotland and they didn't vote to leave the EU, f*ckin English, blah, blah blah.

And then when their is an election the SNP seem to wipe the board. We don't hear the alternative point of view which you have kindly put forward. Thats why we feel a little bit hurt especially after all the subsidies and freebies that are available to someone in Scotland but not to someone in Newcastle not that far south.

You must understand why a lot of English people are saying 'bring it on' and 'next time give us the vote as well.'

totally get it mate, you are absolutely bang on and it so frustrating for the majority of Scots who cannot stand the SNP or Sturgeon. The single biggest problem is that the national media have absolutely zero clue or interest on Scottish matters - as we all know now the national media is London centric, no longer does any independent investigative reporting and are politically biased to the point that they may as well be party members! - when was the last time you saw a reporter actually ask a sensible question rather than just try to make themselves look good?

The SNP and Sturgeon would be found out very quickly if the media actually put some effort in and publcised their many failings - you dont need to look very hard! minister after minister caught swindling, incompetent, sexual sheenanigans then we have the dire state of police, education and nhs or, the state of the economy, drug dependency/deaths - the list is literally endless but outside of Scotland very little is known and Sturgeon, for all her many faults is as brilliant as Goebbles at deflecting and diverting everything she does wrong at Westminster/BoJo
 
Most of this is in the Scottish Politics thread and I've posted this there, but, the missus and I have been talking. She owns a fully mortgage paid 18th century 4 bed home which is a beautiful place. It's basically her pension pot. We've spoke for a while about leaving Scotland if it looks like the worst comes to the worst and the SNP get their way and before the house has the worth of a somalian mud hut in iScotland, as who the feck will want to, or be able to afford to buy a house here?
We've mentioned this on and off over the past couple of years, but we're so sick of this now especially since even with the pandemic going on, that little ginger headed tw@t is still banging the independence drum while people die, we decided that if the SNP get another majority in May, we start the plans to leave Scotland. She's happy with that as she's a pads brat and used to moving around, and me? Well, I've spent more of my life out of Scotland than in it due to army life so I couldn't care less if I'm here or not.

I doubt very much if this will be an individual case, I'm pretty sure that those that are able, will leave Scotland. Big business up here has already stated that they will leave an independent Scotland. That will leave those that aren't able or cant afford to leave, those that are not really bothered, and the Cult of Sturgeon. I really think an iScotland will be a horrendous country to live in for years to come. No money, no jobs, no business, no Barnett formula and more benefit claimers than workers to pay the extortionate tax levels they'll need to raise money.
They're welcome to it. A country gets the government it deserves.

snap - the only thing that would keep me here is supporting my parents who are both getting on in years but when they eventually pass on I will not continue to live in a country that would be so stupid as to choose to destroy itself and be run by incompetent bigots
 
Because all the employed ones are over here, contributing to our country
Think of the arithmetic of what you are saying. I worked with a Hungarian guy, good employee, although strongly anti-semitic as were most of his countrymen that I met. He earned £18k a year. Had 3 kids at school here and a housing assoc subsidised house.
A primary school place averages out at £7k per child per year. (£21K)
Child benefit £90 per child per month. (£3.2k)
Working family/child tax credit/universal credit/whatever its called now £££££?
NHS and dentistry costs. All his kids were born here. Average natural birth in NHS hospital £9k (27K)

How does your statement look now? It doesn't look like a very good deal for UK Plc to me.

I'm not any sort of racist, my family are immigrants. I don't blame F****c for coming here to work and live, I might have done the same in his position. Freedom of movement did at least give me the opportunity to go and work in a warehouse in Bulgaria for 7 Euros a day (as another of my EU colleagues used to) if I wanted to.

Please be clear, EU employees have never supported this country (UK PLC), they have just enabled employers to pay wages that nobody can live on without taxpayer subsidy, and enabled the education system to produce economically useless young adults.
 
Think of the arithmetic of what you are saying. I worked with a Hungarian guy, good employee, although strongly anti-semitic as were most of his countrymen that I met. He earned £18k a year. Had 3 kids at school here and a housing assoc subsidised house.
A primary school place averages out at £7k per child per year. (£21K)
Child benefit £90 per child per month. (£3.2k)
Working family/child tax credit/universal credit/whatever its called now £££££?
NHS and dentistry costs. All his kids were born here. Average natural birth in NHS hospital £9k (27K)

How does your statement look now? It doesn't look like a very good deal for UK Plc to me.

I'm not any sort of racist, my family are immigrants. I don't blame F****c for coming here to work and live, I might have done the same in his position. Freedom of movement did at least give me the opportunity to go and work in a warehouse in Bulgaria for 7 Euros a day (as another of my EU colleagues used to) if I wanted to.

Please be clear, EU employees have never supported this country (UK PLC), they have just enabled employers to pay wages that nobody can live on without taxpayer subsidy, and enabled the education system to produce economically useless young adults.
Exactly that, anyone with 2+ kids and earns less than £40k costs the country money.
 
Exactly that, anyone with 2+ kids and earns less than £40k costs the country money.
But what if both of those kids go on to get jobs over £40K eventually? Then it becomes good business.

We have to invest in children, and get them to reach as far as they can, and keep doing so. That will avoid mass immigration. It is how economies grow.
 
But what if both of those kids go on to get jobs over £40K eventually? Then it becomes good business.

We have to invest in children, and get them to reach as far as they can, and keep doing so. That will avoid mass immigration. It is how economies grow.

Immigration wouldn't be such a bad thing, if we just tried to let in people with skills we need as a nation, and those rich enough not to need to depend on the state
 
Exactly that, anyone with 2+ kids and earns less than £40k costs the country money.
In accordance with the original thread topic, I remember perhaps 5 or 6 years ago the ONS revelation that at the time only 1 in 8 Scottish Householder was a net contributor to UK Plc.

From an economic perspective, I'd gladly cast them aside, what a massive drain on the English taxpayer, the poor sucker that pays for Scots to have free University Education and prescriptions while his children pay through the nose for theirs.

The only risk of independent Scotland is who they would in desperation become a supplicant to China as many African nations are quickly on the road to.
 
If an Independent Scotland did come about, what would happen to Northern Ireland? The Protestants are Ulster Scots. Would the province become part of Scotland or an United Ireland?
I can’t ever imagine a situation where NI became part of Scotland. I also cannot see NI becoming part of a united Ireland for at least 40 years, I can, however, I can see a situation of an extremely devolved and possible an independent Norther Ireland.
 

Niamac

GCM
Well this is all good fun but a few facts about how much the English provinces are shafted by London


So the poorest region in England at $31,179 GDP per head is in international terms just behind Slovakia.

The best off English region, outside the SE, at $37,959 is just above Estonia.........

but London at $74,134 is well ahead of Switzerland.

Why should that be? Well there is the City obviously but almost half of UK spend is spent by the Government and as we found out a couple of weeks ago UK Treasury rules on projects make it very much more likely that SE of England projects will get the go-ahead based on return on investment. Will HS2 make any difference to the North? Not really but it will make a lot of people and companies in the SE a lot better off.

To get back to the thread the reason for all the excitement about Scottish Independence is that Blair created a power centre in Edinburgh and the rest follows naturally. Poor old Andy Burnham is having a go on behalf of the NW but he does not have any of the emotional or cultural momentum that Scotland has.

If (and it's really unlikely) that Goldilocks is serious about "leveling-up" then he will have to shift a hell of a lot of government spend out of the SE, not the FFDs that he is currently applying to the problem.

On a slightly lighter note I had a look at my Michelin guide to the UK - you know, the one that lists all the fancy hotels and restaurants. Most provincial cities run to 3 or 4 pages. London has 115 so it's pretty obvious where the money gets spent. Interestingly the second highest figure, 8 pages, is for Edinburgh - the second largest "seat of government" in the UK. The lobbying firms have to have somewhere decent to take the decision-makers.
 
In accordance with the original thread topic, I remember perhaps 5 or 6 years ago the ONS revelation that at the time only 1 in 8 Scottish Householder was a net contributor to UK Plc.

From an economic perspective, I'd gladly cast them aside, what a massive drain on the English taxpayer, the poor sucker that pays for Scots to have free University Education and prescriptions while his children pay through the nose for theirs.

The only risk of independent Scotland is who they would in desperation become a supplicant to China as many African nations are quickly on the road to.
Your last sentence is the one that concerns me as well
The cult are not levelling with the scots population as a whole on what the economics are going to be. ( after the farcical white paper last time that is understandable if not forgivable.) .
However a year or so after ” the great day”(sic). Those economic harpies are going to come home to roost with a vengeance.. The something close to half the population who didn’t want out are at that point going to start looking for rolls of piano wire and lampposts I’f something isn’t done pronto. So they are going to need a patron with deep pockets and PDQ.
Obviously they aren’t going to come to us as a supplicant. Pride and ideology/ hatred wouldn’t allow that. The EU is going skint and is unlikely to pony up enough to calm the mob.
The third option would be to whore themselves off ( or at least offer to).To whomever would potentially discomfort us the most, and would have the resources to prop up the new state.
The two most obvious would be China. ( giving it its own Guam or Hong kong in the heart of NATO), or failing that,the less financially flush Vlad to really piss us off.Chuck the English out of Faslane and invite the new friends to take up residence.
Of course I would expect before that happened the blackmail gambit would be employed.” Bail us out, and keep doing so and we will not do the deal and possibly let the deterrent stay.
I bet that is being gamed in Bute house.
 
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But what if both of those kids go on to get jobs over £40K eventually? Then it becomes good business.

We have to invest in children, and get them to reach as far as they can, and keep doing so. That will avoid mass immigration. It is how economies grow.
In 25 + years time ? most wont and will be on low pay like their parents so its a no thanks from me.

edit: Better to invest in safer bets.
 
Your last sentence is the one that concerns me as well
The cult are not levelling with the scots population as a whole on what the economics are going to be. ( after the farcical white paper last time that is understandable if not forgivable.) .
However a year or so after ” the great day”(sic). Those economic harpies are going to come home to roost with a vengeance.. The something close to half the population who didn’t want out are at that point going to start looking for rolls of piano wire and lampposts I’f something isn’t done pronto. So they are going to need a patron with deep pockets and PDQ.
Obviously they aren’t going to come to us as a supplicant. Pride and ideology/ hatred wouldn’t allow that. The EU is skint and is unlikely to pony up enough to calm the mob.
The third option would be to whore themselves off ( or at least offer to).To whomever would potentially discomfort us the most, and would have the resources to prop up the new state.
The two most obvious would be China. ( giving it its own Guam or Hong kong in the heart of NATO), or the less financially flush Vlad to really piss us off.Chuck the English out of Faslane and invite the new friends to take up residence.
Of course I would expect before that happened the blackmail gambit would be employed.” Bail us out, and keep doing so and we will not do the deal and possibly let the deterrent stay.
I bet that is bein thought about in Bute house.
I'm stunned that anyone can believe that Scotland could support itself, let alone thrive. The SNP must aim its rhetoric at those with a scant grasp of economics and the status quo.
If English (UK) funding were withdrawn, central govt. funded public sector employment jobs on-shored back to blighty, public sector jobs like military and civil service gone, universities having to attract students who will pay. The list is endless. Added to this is the low demand for oil...
Having royally caught a cold with admitting new members with ahem... dubious financial qualifications (Greece, Spain) the EU couldn't possibly admit Scotland after an honest appraisal of their finances. This will lead the Scots to

A- Go cap in hand to China or Russia, a bit like an unofficial lend lease act, real estate in the British Isles in return for huge loans and 'investment in infrastructure'
B- Blackmail UK with threat of the above in return for same.
 
Noted, but I felt that it was time to separate independence and it's consequence from the torrent of fairy tales and madness that is the Scottish politics thread.
I was thinking more along the lines of the Scottish referendum pre 2014 referendum and another one post 2014 referendum. Then there’s the Scottish politics thread.
 
I'm stunned that anyone can believe that Scotland could support itself, let alone thrive. The SNP must aim its rhetoric at those with a scant grasp of economics and the status quo.
If English (UK) funding were withdrawn, central govt. funded public sector employment jobs on-shored back to blighty, public sector jobs like military and civil service gone, universities having to attract students who will pay. The list is endless. Added to this is the low demand for oil...
Having royally caught a cold with admitting new members with ahem... dubious financial qualifications (Greece, Spain) the EU couldn't possibly admit Scotland after an honest appraisal of their finances. This will lead the Scots to

A- Go cap in hand to China or Russia, a bit like an unofficial lend lease act, real estate in the British Isles in return for huge loans and 'investment in infrastructure'
B- Blackmail UK with threat of the above in return for same.

One threat of cutting off the supply of Buckfast and they will soon calm down, two can play at blackmail
 

Dwarf

LE
The parochial view is all well and good but while I may be wrong, my impression is that the idea being promoted is that the day after I Day then Scotland would automatically enter the EU with all those glorious susidies.

That's not how it works. There would need to be a period of application which could be lengthy while the Scots economy slides further down.
The worry in some EU countries like Spain is how to compensate for the loss of a contributing country after Brexit.
This has come as a nasty surprise to those countries who counted on being net receivers for some time to come and have had to face a reduction in what they get. A new net receiver might not be welcomed with open arms.
Secondly, as noted before, Spain will fight tooth and nail against taking in a country that has declared independence from the State. There is no way they will give support to anything that could aid the cause of Catalan Independence. Their veto may count as Spain's status as a big country in the EU has risen after Brexit. While the Spanish economy is a disaster their political support for EU policies may well prove important and so a quid pro quo could come into play. Scotland may find themselves outside with the way in blocked.
I imagine that isn't common gossip in the SNP as it won't fit the received wisdom.
 

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