Discussion in 'AGC, RAPTC and SASC' started by Ozne, Oct 3, 2010.

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  1. Okay here is a little Scenario of what you guys would do as RMP.

    Its a Saturday night in Aldershot or wherever your posted in the UK. You and another colleague come across a pub fight outside a pub. What do you do? Do you simply ignore it and think 'Meh....they're civvies not my sh1t'. Or do you go arrest them 'assuming' ther military personnel, or do you just call up the local Civplod and get them to deal with it.

  2. As RMP have absolutely zero authority over MOPs I would imagine that unless you are certain they are Sevice Personnel you are going to be, quite literally, on a hiding should you attempt to intervene.
  3. Potentially the RMPs could attempt to use their "any person" powers to intervene. Since the introducton of SOCAP, this power has become more difficult to use. It would depend on factors such as the availability of an actual constable, and the "knowledge" rather than just the "suspicion" that an offence had occured.

    I would offer an alternative option and that would be to consider the broad ranging powers under common law for Breach of the Peace, whereby any person can arrest to prevent a breach of the peace. A BOP has a rather flexible definition, but can be broadly defined as "harm coming to any person or any property".

    Just my opinion.
  4. Althoug I agree it would be daft to intervene

  5. I think people are looking at the wrong legislation for your incident. You could use sect 3(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 which provides that:
    "A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large."

    This would cover you if you acted reasonably, including the racking or use of batons.
  6. At the OP.

    Whip out your fancy phone and video the scrap.

    a) Use footage as evidence should it be required in any investigation.


    b) Post it on You Tube.
  7. I actually work in Aldershot as an RMP Sgt, and the answer is simple....we do joint patrols with the civpol and we would hand over to them if the culprit was a civi. We would deal if it was a soldier. We have the option to deal weather its a civi or a squaddie, but as soon as the id has been established there is a protocol in place to hand over if needed. If we believe a person to be a soldier, we treat them as one until they can prove different. This is fine with the Hants Police as well. Ive heard the comment....."You cant toutch me im a civi" many times as the civpol laugh at them as im slapping on handcuffs. If they are on garrison land...They are mine. (Aldershot military byelaws).
  8. Thank you very much for the reply! Helped greatly :)
  9. Why are you handcuffing civvys under a byelaw? What are you arresting them under?I think we need some caution here as we are drifting from the original scenario where there would no issues when RMP or in fact any member of the public using reasonable force under the criminal law act during a spontaneous violent incident. RMP dealing with civvies ( when civil police are there anyway!) is a car crash waiting to happen.
  10. I'm not interested in the OP as such, but out of interest, the civilian security who roam around Thorpe Park in addition to a stab vest with pouches various, have rigid handcuffs on display. Now these are clearly not warrant card holders, but I guess they are trained in both the use of restraint/cuffs, civil arrest powers and most importantly S3 Criminal Law Act 1967.

    Presumably if someone kicks off, they can apply S3 CLA 67 and reasonably (and proportionaly) use force, including restraint until plod arrive.
  11. Yes if it's reasonable and proportionate until constables arrive.
  12. Reasonable, Proportionate and Necessary.

    Common Law states.....

    If you have an honestly held belief that you or another are in imminent danger, then you may use such force that is responsible and necessary to avert that danger. Furthermore a person about to be attacked does not have to wait for his/her assailant to strike the first blow or fire the first shot, circumstances may justify a pre-emptive strike.

    These laws are interpreted according to the following guidelines:

    a. Minimum use of force
    b. Proportionality
    c. Seriousness of evil to be prevented
    d. Right of self defence.

    All of this combined with the Conflict resolution model.....should answer any critics.
  13. Quite. But back to your good self. Reading the above, how are you justifying handcuffing civvys under a byelaw?