Scaring Civvies & the law

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
My TAC backs onto a large area of Park, about the size of three football fields, and the other night we were doing contact drills and patrols. The PC had the idea of using the park as background for this as the only other area we have available for doing this on a drill night is the vehicle compound which is less than ideal due to its cramped confines and concrete floor (makes going prone potentially painful!). Anyway, the general consensus amongst the rest of us was that this was Not A Good Idea, as the locals who are also occupying the park might object to a bunch of squaddies running around with rifles.

My question is this;

What is the actual law on us doing this? I am not asking if we can fire blanks etc, i know we cant due to H&S etc. But if doing contact drills, We will be able to move around taking up proper fire positions etc, but doing it without weapons just looks a bit gay! Anyone know what needs to be done?

Another bonus is that the locals see what we are doing and might help recruitment...(well, it might do)....We also get to see the young women sunbathing :twisted: :twisted: 8)
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#2
How will you be able to see them sunbathing when you have laid down all that smoke :? :wink:
 
T

taric

Guest
#3
As long as the safety distances of blank firing are adhered to you're fine because you're exempt from the fire arms act when on duty i think the only problem would be the risk of the safety distances being incroached on by nosey civoirs and the fact they're not as predictable as a trained soldier or STAB
 
#4
taric said:
as a trained soldier or STAB
Funny, I though most STABs were trained soldiers?
 
#5
I think a Public Military Event form would have to be submitted to District or Brigade, with a letter to the local police force. Also the usual risk assessments and method statements ect.
 
#6
The use of the park and the range of activities permitted therein will be subject to the provisions of the Local Authority bye-laws, although it is extremely doubtful that the use to which you would intend to put it would fall within the ambit of such regulations since the drafters may not have had it in their contemplation that it should be used for military purposes.

However, it is the propertyof the Local Authority who may or may not be sympathetic to your plight, they will take into account all relevant considerations, including the likely reaction of the public.

I would recommend a letter to them, outlining the limited use to which you would wish to put it and to seek their approval. The chain of command should be informed of both the application and the outcome.

You are quite correct in seeking advice before engaging in the necessary activity to which you refer.

Regards and best wishes
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
I didnt mean firing blanks, i meant just doing rehearsals and getting the mechanics right. What i have in mind is just pepper potting from one side of the park to the other, reactions to contacts front, left, right and rear and RTER etc. At the moment, peeling off properly represents an advanced concept for some..
Getting ammo down there is too much of an admin problem as we are a satellite location of coy HQ, pretty sure we dont keep any ammo there. Plus we are in the middle of an urban area with the parks surrounded by housing and shops.
 
#8
I would suggest that, even before you ask the local council, you speak to your Bde G3 LTAR - the gurus of training on public/private land. There will be something laid down in Bde Standing Orders. Other considerations (Which I am sure they will advise you on) would be risk assessments, insurance (public liability), PME, security, etc.
 
#9
Greenslime wrote:

I would suggest that, even before you ask the local council, you speak to your Bde G3 LTAR - the gurus of training on public/private land. There will be something laid down in Bde Standing Orders. Other considerations (Which I am sure they will advise you on) would be risk assessments, insurance (public liability), PME, security, etc.
Spot on, LTAR will be your man as well as your local MI section for Sy advice. This would not be a PME unless you advertised it in advance as something for the public to attend as an audience.

Both at my home TAC and current working location we have to go off camp to do the CFT - it's always seemed a bit strange tabbing about the place with a rifle and through crowds visiting the local beauty spot!
 
T

taric

Guest
#10
yeah but you're also quite useless having worked with you before i don't know many trained soldiers who take well over 2 hours to do a platoon attack and need to be guided onto positions by the d.s. think i counted 5 nd's that day frankly most of that unit (supposed TA inf unit) had poor basic skills and were embarrasing to watch so you can call yourself you're trained but how well trained you are is another matter but i will say you have my respect for the ones i served in iraq with having done that and having a civvy job but the stab is quite a comical creature as to quote a so-called stab seargent i had a go at for being a mong on telic6 "you can't talk to me like that i've done part of senior brecon" ha ha don't mke me fookin laff
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
Point taken, but on our CFT's we just check an extra 5 kilos in the bergan rather than the rifle. I will have a word with the head shed and see what goes from there.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
taric said:
yeah but you're also quite useless having worked with you before i don't know many trained soldiers who take well over 2 hours to do a platoon attack and need to be guided onto positions by the d.s. think i counted 5 nd's that day frankly most of that unit (supposed TA inf unit) had poor basic skills and were embarrasing to watch so you can call yourself you're trained but how well trained you are is another matter but i will say you have my respect for the ones i served in iraq with having done that and having a civvy job but the stab is quite a comical creature as to quote a so-called stab seargent i had a go at for being a mong on telic6 "you can't talk to me like that i've done part of senior brecon" ha ha don't mke me fookin laff
Are you referring to me personally? If so could you provide more details of when etc? If not, and you are just stab bashing, not a particularly useful post, my friend.
You do have a point with the abilities though. When i came back from telic 6, i too was watching with disbelief at some of the goings on, but then we dont have as much chance to practice IMHO (hence the whole doing the basics on the evening drill nights). I joined ten years ago and the training is fundamentally different now. Whereas once we would hit the ground on the friday night and conduct all the aspects of an operation (as best we could) until endex on a sunday afternoon, nowadays we dont do half as much. Sleep on the fri night, lessons on sat daytime and move into a short exercise sat night, sun morning seems to be the most we do, and dont do that often...More often we concentrate on our role which is CCRF and Force Protection.
 
T

taric

Guest
#13
yeah i am stab bashing not you personally though i believe in blanket slagging the only reason i go off at stabs is i'm sick of seing you cnuts at train stations wearing ya webbing and wearing C95 to walk ya dogs and gobbing off about being trained and giving people a dad's army image of the army and where were you for telic 6 i was 3para shaiabhah log base attatched to 12 mech (craphat central) brigade and like i said it's nothin personal to you i do bash but there is a level of respect and quite a high one too !!!!
 
#14
People stop taking the bait. This probably explains a lot

taric said:
I have recently been discharged from 3PARA for being sent down for GBH and after my release from butlins i recieved a letter from my C.O. and ADJ stating that if i took this letter plus a good reference from my C.O. which was supplied of course to the ACIO and they can begin the re-joining process i have done this and i am now waiting for a response from glasgow the ACIO reckon that there should not be a problem and there has been a few cases like this before envolving some 2PARA blokes and another 3PARA bod who's crimes were either equal to mine or slightly worse!!!! Any one got anything on this one for me ???????
 
#15
One might assume from Taric's eloquent prose that he is indeed a Para...

BUT...

There were qite a few TA at SLB for T6. Including many members of 4 Para if I'm not mistaken.

I'm afraid I have to bite here... there is a touch of the Walt about you my friend.

Best leave it for now, you probably should be concentrating on your homework or else no Battlefield 2: Modern Combat for you tonight!

SB
 
#16
SilverBullet said:
you probably should be concentrating on your homework or else no Battlefield 2: Modern Combat for you tonight!

SB
That's a bit harsh, SB. Depriving someone of BF2 is no small punishment 8O . Go easy on the lad and confiscate his copies of Guns and Ammo instead.
 
#17
taric said:
yeah i am stab bashing not you personally though i believe in blanket slagging the only reason i go off at stabs is i'm sick of seing you cnuts at train stations wearing ya webbing and wearing C95 to walk ya dogs and gobbing off about being trained and giving people a dad's army image of the army and where were you for telic 6 i was 3para shaiabhah log base attatched to 12 mech (craphat central) brigade and like i said it's nothin personal to you i do bash but there is a level of respect and quite a high one too !!!!
If this is true (I think it dubious that a STAB would bother with webbing - are you sure they're not civvy walts?), ring their units and let their PSI's know.

The only times I've seen Rail travel in C95 (barring a v. embarrassing experience involving one broken down 4 tonner, a dozen post ex phase one blerks and the Overground train to Clapham Junction) both involved the OTC, not the TA.
 
#18
Iolis said:
The use of the park and the range of activities permitted therein will be subject to the provisions of the Local Authority bye-laws, although it is extremely doubtful that the use to which you would intend to put it would fall within the ambit of such regulations since the drafters may not have had it in their contemplation that it should be used for military purposes.

However, it is the propertyof the Local Authority who may or may not be sympathetic to your plight, they will take into account all relevant considerations, including the likely reaction of the public.

I would recommend a letter to them, outlining the limited use to which you would wish to put it and to seek their approval. The chain of command should be informed of both the application and the outcome.

You are quite correct in seeking advice before engaging in the necessary activity to which you refer.

Regards and best wishes
its a must, I work for a LA, if they aren't asked they will spit their dummy out Im afraid (they like to be involved......)
 
#19
Dont what to continue any STAB bashing, all the TA Ive worked with have been more than up to the job and I have nothing but prase for them, however they were members that had been intigrated into a regular Regt to boost numbers and I belive that works very well. TA Coys working independantly however is another matter!
 
#20
Gillylady said:
its a must, I work for a LA, if they aren't asked they will spit their dummy out Im afraid (they like to be involved......)
ISTR Hampstead Heath has something in it's byelaws about being fined sixpence for practicing military manoevres within its grounds.

Don't ask why I know Hampstead Heath's Byelaws though.

Oh, alright. I was dogging.

Whilst wearing C95 and webbing.
 
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