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Scariest place in NI?

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
The Chunkies used to do guard dog patrols in Lisburn in 73-76 time with Alsation dogs. The joke was that the only reason the dogs had a Chunkie handler was because the dogs couldn't answer the phone. Things were pretty relaxed then with no one bothering to much with haircuts and the usual army f*ckwittery. You can tell when peace is returning as the 'Great God Bullshit' and all his disciples come out of the woodwork and spread his gospel.
A very few words explain much of what happened in the early 90s onward. "Garrison Sergeant Major - RSM 15 Signal Regiment". The Regiment was the single most purposeless military organisation ever set up. It controlled fuck all, had two squadrons theoretically under command and had influence over three more, but there were a lovely big CO's slot, an Adjutant's slot and room for an RSM, so that was just doozy.

Making RSM 15 Sig Regt the Garrison RSM and giving him the whole Thiepval trainset, theoretically, to play with, was a recipe for silliness.
 
South Armagh I'm guessing. Derry could be dangerous as well I'm guessing. But all of Northern Ireland then. Now Northern Ireland is **** all to be frightened of.
Nothing to be frightened of? I'd be very frightened of the money its going to leech of the exchequer when the BREXIT/Covid pigeons come home to roost. :)
 
A very few words explain much of what happened in the early 90s onward. "Garrison Sergeant Major - RSM 15 Signal Regiment". The Regiment was the single most purposeless military organisation ever set up. It controlled fuck all, had two squadrons theoretically under command and had influence over three more, but there were a lovely big CO's slot, an Adjutant's slot and room for an RSM, so that was just doozy.

Making RSM 15 Sig Regt the Garrison RSM and giving him the whole Thiepval trainset, theoretically, to play with, was a recipe for silliness.
I have too much to say about this post, as a lot of it is misleading. However, just a few points:

I agree that the regiment was a fictional structure with little control or influence over the day to day work of 3/4 of its troops. I also agree that RSM 15 slot was a poisoned chalice handed to somebody who was likely to have no influence whatsoever, but made to carry the can if something went wrong (See Thiepval barracks bomb 1996 [Poor fecker]). A bit like RSM 14SR, which a completely pointless post.

On the other hand, the jobs that were being done by the 'squadrons', as you put it, were a critical part of the collective effort and understood as such across the board.

Don't be obtuse!
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
I have too much to say about this post, as a lot of it is misleading. However, just a few points:

I agree that the regiment was a fictional structure with little control or influence over the day to day work of 3/4 of its troops. I also agree that RSM 15 slot was a poisoned chalice handed to somebody who was likely to have no influence whatsoever, but made to carry the can if something went wrong (See Thiepval barracks bomb 1996 [Poor fecker]). A bit like RSM 14SR, which a completely pointless post.

On the other hand, the jobs that were being done by the 'squadrons', as you put it, were a critical part of the collective effort and understood as such across the board.

Don't be obtuse!
Read it again. I said nothing about the squadrons and their work - and I was in one of them for three years at this time - but, rather, about the holy Regiment which never, as far as I could see, delivered any value to operations at any point.

The Brigade squadrons did their thing, the two Lisburn squadrons did their thing, the near-squadron's worth of assorted comms types in another unit did theirs and all did a cracking job.

I think you're perhaps being generous to RSM 15, or perhaps just one incumbent, who was a total liability and never quite got the hang of there being serious stuff to be getting on with apart from his pace-stickery.
 
Did they ever set them up over the border, and fire across? I believe they used this tactic with other weapons. In cases like this were you guys allowed to return fire over the border? In the Irish army/Garda challenge/engage/arrest them
We were allowed to fire across the border, but only 7.62/5.56. Which meant no 40mm grenades from the M203. I suppose, in theory, the Irish Army and cops would nick anyone coming over, otherwise there was no point in them being there.
 
You weren't allowed to wear head dress around helicopters for obvious reasons. Did you have to wear helmets all the time by the nineties? A remember one of the rules in flying with Teeny Weeny Airlines was that it was 'sleeves rolled down. Apparently something to do with fire and burning oil in the event of a crash. I think a PLP had to be worn if flying over water, but we flew a few times over Loch Neagh near Antrim without them.
On my first tour, S.Armagh 1988, we wore berets out in the cuds and helmets and INIBA while out around the town. Sometimes though, just for s***s and giggles, we wore beret and hackle in town. Subsequent tours, helmets all the way.
 
Read it again. I said nothing about the squadrons and their work - and I was in one of them for three years at this time - but, rather, about the holy Regiment which never, as far as I could see, delivered any value to operations at any point.

The Brigade squadrons did their thing, the two Lisburn squadrons did their thing, the near-squadron's worth of assorted comms types in another unit did theirs and all did a cracking job.

I think you're perhaps being generous to RSM 15, or perhaps just one incumbent, who was a total liability and never quite got the hang of there being serious stuff to be getting on with apart from his pace-stickery.
We seem to agree, but the wording of your post was misleading, whether that was deliberate or not only you know. The implication was that 15 SR was pointless, which it most definitely was not, even though you now seem to have expressed the opinion that HQ 15SR was pointless and the troops should have been in a different CoC.

I agree that 'MS' was a knob, but he was not supposed to be across the duties for which he got sanctioned, even though they were theoretically on his chit. That is a different conversation, for which ARRSE is not the right venue.
 
fraid not. gen story. checked with another person that was peripherally connected and proved to be true.
It fits with the political history of Ireland. The two dominant parties in the Republic emerged from a pro-treaty background while Sinn Fein and PIRA evolved from an anti-treaty ancestry. The IDF have always leaned towards the pro-treaty side of the equation and would thus be regarded as 'traitorous' by the predominantly Republican population around the border areas.
 
Apologies for the thread drift, I had the opportunity to spend an evening with the Irish Army in their camp in Pristina early 2000s. I was chatting with one of the lads who had previously served at their barracks in Dundalk. I was surprised to hear the locals considered the Irish Army " free state traitors" and that they had to watch where they went when they had time off
Your story seems to ring true with what I heard from a few of them as opposed to the usual line of their being provo sympathisers (although there must have been a few)
Correct. All Border personnel (Air Corps as well as Army) were warned of which pubs/shops/night clubs/restaurants/housing estates were hostile/PIRA fans/Shinner controlled and owned etc. and depending on events across the Border, any "Free State Bastard" would expect a frosty welcome/hiding/refusal of service if they went in to them, especially off-duty and especially if they lived in the area and most importantly, if they lived in areas opposite the hotspots (Monaghan vs South Armagh). It also applied to Customs and Revenue personnel and even civil servants in the Social Welfare. Stopping the dole of a local "player" could have repercussions. It wasn't unknown for non-military/police to be targetted with intimidation and threats to families etc. A lot of this had to do with smuggling and a certain amount of it still goes on with current smuggling and the dissident Republican groups. As for Provo sympathisers in the PDF or Gardai, guaranteed but quite often, they were detected quickly and isolated or simply thrown out.
 
Correct. All Border personnel (Air Corps as well as Army) were warned of which pubs/shops/night clubs/restaurants/housing estates were hostile/PIRA fans/Shinner controlled and owned etc. and depending on events across the Border, any "Free State Bastard" would expect a frosty welcome/hiding/refusal of service if they went in to them, especially off-duty and especially if they lived in the area and most importantly, if they lived in areas opposite the hotspots (Monaghan vs South Armagh). It also applied to Customs and Revenue personnel and even civil servants in the Social Welfare. Stopping the dole of a local "player" could have repercussions. It wasn't unknown for non-military/police to be targetted with intimidation and threats to families etc. A lot of this had to do with smuggling and a certain amount of it still goes on with curreisions nt smuggling and the dissident Republican groups. As for Provo sympathisers in the PDF or Gardai, guaranteed but quite often, they were detected quickly and isolated or simply thrown out.
It sounds a bit like the way the RIC were treated during the 'War of Independence' between 1919 - 1921 with police boycotts and the subsequent divisions after the Civil war with which side did your Grandad fight on - Pro-Treaty Free State Army or the Anti-Treaty rebels.
 
It fits with the political history of Ireland. The two dominant parties in the Republic emerged from a pro-treaty background while Sinn Fein and PIRA evolved from an anti-treaty ancestry. The IDF have always leaned towards the pro-treaty side of the equation and would thus be regarded as 'traitorous' by the predominantly Republican population around the border areas.
Kinch, the two dominant parties in the Republic since Independence in 1922 are Fine Gael which emerged from Michael Collins Pro-Treaty Free State side and Fianna Fail which emerged from De Valera's Anti-Treaty side.
 
Kinch, the two dominant parties in the Republic since Independence in 1922 are Fine Gael which emerged from Michael Collins Pro-Treaty Free State side and Fianna Fail which emerged from De Valera's Anti-Treaty side.
I tried to give the easy version - but of course you are correct albeit that Dev was then regarded as a traitor by the remaining Shinner representatives who stood by the proclamation (2nd Dail) went on to sign away their allegiance to the IRA. It's complicated I guess.
ETA easier to understand than to explain - shorter at least :cool:
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
We seem to agree, but the wording of your post was misleading, whether that was deliberate or not only you know. The implication was that 15 SR was pointless, which it most definitely was not, even though you now seem to have expressed the opinion that HQ 15SR was pointless and the troops should have been in a different CoC.

I agree that 'MS' was a knob, but he was not supposed to be across the duties for which he got sanctioned, even though they were theoretically on his chit. That is a different conversation, for which ARRSE is not the right venue.
With respect, you seem to have been the only person misled. I was quite clear - and remain convinced - that, absent the political imperative which decreed that every sub-unit-sized organisation in NI should have a unit-level entity over the top of it, the two Lisburn squadrons, with quite discrete and well-understood taskings - and existing operational command and control arrangements - were perfectly capable of operating effectively and efficiently without, as they had done for years.

Your experience may well vary, certainly, I was never aware of any operational, administrative or organisational advantage to my squadron of being part of 15 Signal Regiment. Quite the contrary in a number of ways; to be fair, it must have been intensely irritating to the Regimental hierarchy to have close to zero visibility of the activities of one of its sub-units.
 
Kinch, the two dominant parties in the Republic since Independence in 1922 are Fine Gael which emerged from Michael Collins Pro-Treaty Free State side and Fianna Fail which emerged from De Valera's Anti-Treaty side.
In the Defence Forces, whilst officially non-political, it wasnt unknown for one's family politics to be taken into consideration for elevation beyond Lt-Colonel. Officers considered "difficult" don't tend to get on.
 
With respect, you seem to have been the only person misled. I was quite clear - and remain convinced - that, absent the political imperative which decreed that every sub-unit-sized organisation in NI should have a unit-level entity over the top of it, the two Lisburn squadrons, with quite discrete and well-understood taskings - and existing operational command and control arrangements - were perfectly capable of operating effectively and efficiently without, as they had done for years.

Eh? My first (2 year) tour in NI was in an independent squadron - an RHQ to sit over that resident unit and its roulement counterpart came much later.

Perhaps your comment is purely a R SIGS thing? Even so, I don't remember 15 Sigs existing when I was first in the Province.
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
Eh? My first (2 year) tour in NI was in an independent squadron - an RHQ to sit over that resident unit and its roulement counterpart came much later.

Perhaps your comment is purely a R SIGS thing? Even so, I don't remember 15 Sigs existing when I was first in the Province.
It all dates from the late 80s/early 90s; some senior officer's Bright Idea. The idea was that there would be no independent sub-units in NI.
 

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