Scandal of £6 billion wasted by the MOD

Discussion in 'Tanks, planes & ships' started by tekirdag, Dec 14, 2010.

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  1. More details about the failed contracts entered into by the MOD. (The Times, 14th December).

    How much equipment would this have purchased, if the MOD had employed professional purchasing executives? What multi-national company would have allowed its administration to have degenerated to this degree?

    Scandal of £6 billion squandered by the MoD
  2. WatchingWater

    WatchingWater Old-Salt Book Reviewer

    Let's be thankful that at least the other 37 Billion is well spent then...
  3. But thing of the extra good kit that could have been purchased!

    Eg FRES - three quarters of a BILLION pounds to do what decide to purchase a design off the shelf for one of the main vehicles???? You could have bought one from the manufacturer to test out for probably less than 3 million!
  4. Grumblegrunt

    Grumblegrunt LE Book Reviewer

    yet nimrod was actually going to be good kit! Bae being part of the a380 syndicate they could have tucked a few quid away from that in a spirit of patriotism.

    I have it on good authority that the procurement civvies are going nuts because they know an allmighty slap is coming and it might effect their knighthoods
  5. msr

    msr LE

    Funny how the regular army reckons the TA don't know / practise / understand / have the skillset for current ops, yet reckon that they can do commercial contract negotiation on the back of a 2 year posting to Abbeywood....
  6. All reflected in the Topshop boss's recent review of government procurement - it is incompetent. Peter Green reckons he could save 17 billion pa by just tightening up our system of procurement. From what I saw in my old job in a high-prestige Whitehall office, there is no doubt he is right. Will the Coalition act on his report? We wait the outcome with interest ....
  7. Grumblegrunt

    Grumblegrunt LE Book Reviewer

    I found a much high skillset in TA troops, what they lacked was fitness and muscle memory.

    when I joined up TA first we could have built our own atomic bomb and delivery system from the talent at hand I reckon
  8. Nothing new really though, didn't new labour rip into the last lot of tories over this and bring out "smart procurement" as an answer.
    Everyone knows the MoD needs a right good kick up the **** over this but the ones tasked with delivering it are the same ones that need it so it doesn't happen, will this report bring any change ?
  9. It always makes me giggle when the Army/MoD tries to negotiate with companies such as BritishWasteofSpace. They employ commercial lawyers on over 250k basic per annum with 15-20 years experience and sales professionals of similar experience. Against them the MoD puts together a Col or Lt Col and a Major, none of whom have ever worked for a commercial organisation. The cynic in me says that no-one from the MoD (uniformed or civilian) ever wants to look too closely at the deal because they are hoping for a nice bit of consultancy work when they retire...

    One issue that has never been addressed (and even less so now that Qinetic was sold for nothing), is that the MoD pays BAe and other companies for the full R&D costs on a new piece of equipment. So how come the MoD don't own the technology or receive a slice of any future sales? Let's compare the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Bugatti Veyron.

    Actual production cost of the Typhoon is probably in the order of 35-40 million GBP, yet Britain pays 130 - 160 million GBP each (depending on who you believe).

    The Bugatti Veyron is on sale at around 1 million GBP, but actual production cost is 5 million. Why the difference? VW group know that they would never sell a car at 5 million, and the presence of the Bugatti strengthens the brand value of the whole group, as well as the technology used in the Veyron is being filtered throughout the group, resulting in better cars that sell for more money. i.e. VW make money in the long term by using the Veyron as a loss leader.

    So why should the British Taxpayer get royally shafted by the ***** at BAe?

  10. Well now... I reckon the lads I served with in the TA (I was a PSI) were a good bunch, but non of them were rocket scientists exactly. In fact some of them had problems tying their shoe laces correctly.
  11. Riiiight, so a team of private consultants recommends more work is subbed out to....private consultants!

    How many times have we been here? Bring in industry 'best practice', which very soon falls flat on its face when faced with the reality of military operations...'just in time' procurement anyone?
    I also know of one MoD agency who hired in an industry 'top gun' to their commercial department. He decided he was going to shake things up and get rid of old school civil service 'dead wood' by making everyone in his department re-apply for their own jobs. This resulted in half the department losing their jobs - great he thinks, objective met, tick vg for promotion! However, there was no immeadiate plan to replace those who had been moved out...and as a result, for the next 6 months, the handful of remaining staff were barely able to keep up with demand when the shit hit the fan in UOR world...nice one Maverick! Of course, in his world, the UORs were an abberation that would be recorded as a 'risk' - in ours that meant delayed kit, and lives at risk.

    Seriously, I don't doubt that things need to change in procurement...but one of the biggest problems we have is that military customer can never seem to decide what they really want, which may in turn be something to do with the fact that the same customer can change 3 or more times during the course of a major project!
  12. Now, lets go through the items in the report:

    Yup, fair one, this has taken waaaaay longer than it should have.

    However, most of this delay has been imposed by the fact the military customer(s) seemed to lose sight of what it was all about, and got caught up in the whole powerpoint, modular, network-centric pipe dream of the post 9-11 world.

    However, of the money spent to far, how much of this has been spent on...wait for it....private industry consultants! WS Atkins, who managed to spend god knows how much cashing working out what everyone knew already - you can't get CR2 protection in a C-130 transportable platform, and that the industry offerings weren't suddenly going to go through a mobile-phone style quantum leap in technology.

    Upgraded Bulldog as UOR for Iraq came out of Treasury Reserve - so not from MoD budget. The remaining mk3 replaced the Saxon in Mech Inf Bns until FRES not really a 'scandal' that they did not go do Afghan.

    Rivet Joint
    Obviously couldn't find enough dirt here, so they concentrate on the fact that the RC-135 airframe is marginally older than the Nimrod airframe. Wow - can't be any good then, can it?

    As above - I do think things need to change. However, much of the media-driven criticism is off the mark, and therefore does not help in advancing the cause - because incorrect allegations are easy to rebutt.
  13. What annoys me more is the fact that the MoD use BAe to tell them what equipment they need and how much it'll cost.

    That's like me going into a car garage and saying 'Blank Cheque, tell me what I need'. Of course the guy is going to tell me that suede mats aren't enough and I need the velvet ones. BAe do the same to the MoD, and the MoD pay for both the velvet mats, and the consultancy fee for being told do buy them!
  14. No they don't.

    The MoD and single services decide what they want, write a requirement, and ask industry to cost it (who else is going to do that?). QinetiQ - who are industry now, but in most cases not a prime contractor are sometimes tasked to provide advice, but in most cases the 'independant consultant' role is carried out by Dstl, the part of DERA that wasn't sold (an usually overlooked).
  15. Outsourcing means jobs for the boys, not our boys. BAe spend our money hand over fist and what do we see for it? Their contracts are so written that their manning and office accomodation cost are paid for directly by the MoD, who have no control of those costs. Meanwhile our civil servants run around Abbey Wood searching for a free desk and phone.

    Look at the PFI contract for plant equipment, staff, cars, managers, offices etc. sprang up everywhere. The people who used to fix the plant were much fewer and are still in place doing their other jobs. Where was the saving?