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Scamming the state and the possibility of being caught.

happyuk

War Hero
Some of the possible agenda behind all of this are fairly obvious.
  • Vaccinations
  • Monitoring of personal movements
  • Controlled demolition of the global economy into a second Great Depression (poor, psychologically broken people are easier to control)
  • Some kind of ID chipping or a step in that direction
  • A move towards making cash seem 'dangerous' or 'uncool'
  • Global food shortages, again another means of controlling populations
But I'm increasingly concerned that there may [also] be an agenda to destroy small businesses.

In the US, it sure looks like that. It's becoming rapidly clear that the small business loans are really hard to get which is either even more naive, administrative incompetence, or part of a co-ordinated Machiavellian plan to take out Middle America.

As a standalone item, this hasn't been mentioned all that much. But it will be in the days and weeks to come, and quickly, too. Watch the political storm in the US heat up, fast. There are going to be some open shouting matches on prime time news TV.

All this is because paradoxically and nonsensically, if you don't already have a loan with a bank, you're ineligible. Go figure. It almost makes zero sense whatsoever unless there was a deliberate sabotage effort to make it near-impossible.

The more I stare at this slow-motion catastrophe, the more I see very bad times ahead indeed.
 
Sweden.
They are swanning around CoronaVid free by the looks of it.

Like many places, the Swedish death toll has gone north at a sharp rate this past week.

Apologies if this has already been answered.
 

Yokel

LE

An astute observer might make a connection between a totalitarian Communist regime, a lack of truth, and disease...

Doesn't sound like a lot to me to be honest. Strong nation / city states have dealt with this much better like South Korea, Japan, Malaysia and Hong Kong. Of course we know the answer will be more EU integration, it always is. When the dust settles, the EU's reputation will be dented ( that goes for all of the Western world)

How is Hong Kong doing? Also Taiwan? As the people are of the same ethnicity as in the PRC, and difference in the spread of the disease has to be down to responses by Government.

I hear that the president of Belarus has said people can fight the virus with vigorous exercise and drinking Vodka.
 
Total thread drift, now, can we get back to the OP's original question, something along the lines of" How many years will I get in prison, when I eventually get caught scamming the state out of many thousands of its tax pounds?" ....or something like that!
 
On a more positive note, those that had been gaming the benefits system are coming a cropper.
My partner works for HMRC in tax credits and it's all hands to the wheel. Instead of doing an hour a day on the phones, all her team are now doing full days for the past two weeks on them.
On thing she tells me is that they have had many, many calls from those who had previously been declaring minimum incomes so as to claim full tax credits.
These people are usually in the barber/taxi/kebab shop type trades where there is a lot of cash over the counter and little or no card payments.
Sadly they can't calim the mega 'free' cash they thought they could as they have all declared low incomes and have bank statements to corroborate this. So they are getting feck all as they were already entitled to the max benefits.

On another note, I got an email from my accountant last week in regards to how company directors of small businesses can try and claim. Not sure if any of this has changed in the meantime, but this was his advice:

I have spoken to our tax advisors at *** with regards to furloughing directors who traditionally have paid themselves low salary and topped up with dividends to see if anything can be done with regards to getting a grant for furloughing directors over and above the 80% on the salary.

There is absolutely no guidance from HMRC on this and there is no way of telling whether any additional help is in the pipeline.

I used the example to PFP, if a director currently pays £10k salary and £20k dividends – what would happen if the director started paying themselves £2500/month to maintain the £30k per year salary.

The answer was, HMRC have indicated they will pay out on all claims for furloughing help once the system is up and running. However, HMRC do reserve the right to retrospectively audit the claims and request refunds if they do not agree with the claim.

While there is no guidance as yet on this, it is not a licence to print money. Putting a claim through for high wages which the company can not afford will not work. Using current salary, together with last year’s dividend split over 12 months may or may not work. I would also continue the higher salary route moving forward at least until the end of 2020/21 to give a better argument for having changed the way you pay yourself.

Yes increasing salary will mean there will be higher PAYE amounts for you to pay but it will reduce corporation tax.

THIS IS NOT ADVICE OR A GUARANTEE OF SUCCESS BUT IF YOU WANT US TO GO DOWN THIS ROUTE AT YOUR OWN RISK, PLEASE LET US KNOW IN WRITING (EMAIL HERE IS FINE) AND WE’LL LOOK AT PUTTING IN A REALISTIC CLAIM OR IF YOU RUN YOUR OWN PAYROLL, INFORM YOU AS TO THE AMOUNT OF DIVIDEND YOU TOOK LAST YEAR.

If anything gets announced in the coming days as a more structured help route for directors who pay themselves in the low salary, higher dividend, I will of course be back in contact to advise accordingly.

Best of luck with getting through this.

Our accountants are very good at what they do and do not encourage any kind of dodgy behaviour at all, so this will probably be the best advice so far on how company owners/directors can proceed.
I'm on a much reduced wage but we have plenty in reserves to see us over many months, but can still pay all the household bills and put food on the table as well as the occasional small treat.
As regards to the actual topic of scamming the state, all I shall say is that eventually, you will be caught and I wouldn't be surprised that there will not be a few high profile cases in relation to this coming up in the next couple of years once they begin to crunch the data.
 
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Boris_Johnson

ADC
Moderator
DirtyBAT
Leave the personal rubbish at the door on the way in please gents.

If you're a new member, please acquaint yourself with the rules in the Forum Sticky.
 
Therefore I am considering under reporting my savings and making a fraudulent claim to both the Government and council so I qualify for benefits.

My understanding is that the state can only delve into your bank accounts/investments if a court orders it, and as such assuming all my figures add up on the various applications I am unlikely to get looked at.

Appreciate any thoughts.

Transfer your saving to Bitcoin - and buy Tether (stable coin set at $1) Financial systems cant see your Crypto holdings
 

Yokel

LE
Some of the possible agenda behind all of this are fairly obvious.
  • Vaccinations
  • Monitoring of personal movements
  • Controlled demolition of the global economy into a second Great Depression (poor, psychologically broken people are easier to control)
  • Some kind of ID chipping or a step in that direction
  • A move towards making cash seem 'dangerous' or 'uncool'
  • Global food shortages, again another means of controlling populations
But I'm increasingly concerned that there may [also] be an agenda to destroy small businesses.

In the US, it sure looks like that. It's becoming rapidly clear that the small business loans are really hard to get which is either even more naive, administrative incompetence, or part of a co-ordinated Machiavellian plan to take out Middle America.

As a standalone item, this hasn't been mentioned all that much. But it will be in the days and weeks to come, and quickly, too. Watch the political storm in the US heat up, fast. There are going to be some open shouting matches on prime time news TV.

All this is because paradoxically and nonsensically, if you don't already have a loan with a bank, you're ineligible. Go figure. It almost makes zero sense whatsoever unless there was a deliberate sabotage effort to make it near-impossible.

The more I stare at this slow-motion catastrophe, the more I see very bad times ahead indeed.

Really? Every Government in the World is dependent on tax revenue - some might say addicted. Do you really think they would do this if they did not think it was necessary to prevent masses of deaths and the risk of societal collapse?

I think the use of cash has been in decline for years now. Ultimately it is just a token.
 

Rab_C

War Hero
On a more positive note, those that had been gaming the benefits system are coming a cropper.
My partner works for HMRC in tax credits and it's all hands to the wheel. Instead of doing an hour a day on the phones, all her team are now doing full days for the past two weeks on them.
On thing she tells me is that they have had many, many calls from those who had previously been declaring minimum incomes so as to claim full tax credits.
These people are usually in the barber/taxi/kebab shop type trades where there is a lot of cash over the counter and little or no card payments.
Sadly they can't calim the mega 'free' cash they thought they could as they have all declared low incomes and have bank statements to corroborate this. So they are getting feck all as they were already entitled to the max benefits.

On another note, I got an email from my accountant last week in regards to how company directors of small businesses can try and claim. Not sure if any of this has changed in the meantime, but this was his advice:



Our accountants are very good at what they do and do not encourage any kind of dodgy behaviour at all, so this will probably be the best advice so far on how company owners/directors can proceed.
I'm on a much reduced wage but we have plenty in reserves to see us over many months, but can still pay all the household bills and put food on the table as well as the occasional small treat.
As regards to the actual topic of scamming the state, all I shall say is that eventually, you will be caught and I wouldn't be surprised that there will not be a few high profile cases in realtion to this coming up in the next couple of years once they begin to crunch the data.
Pretty much reflects what my accountant told me. Also you have to furlough yourself so no accepting any “windfall” work that may be offered.
 
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I'm not condoning scamming the state, after all it's my taxes that are being scammed however:

My daughter and her partner worked for a business in the tourist sector. Total employees were nine people. One of the employees tried to claim some sort of tax credit but was told by HMRC that she couldn't as she wasn't employed!

My daughter and her partner did some digging (as did the other employees) and it revealed that he (Sole trader boss) had been deducting tax and NI from their salaries but not giving the deductions to HMRC. As far as HMRC were concerned they were not employed.

He was prosecuted and he had scammed HMRC for well over £100,000.

His guilty plea got him community service with no order to pay anything back.

Go figure if it's worth it!
 
A fairly well off relative of mine ( 3 bed house by the sea all paid off and the same amount in savings ) went into a care home and died soon after, the house was sold and all the proceeds and money was used up in fees, taxes, duties and expenses, not a penny left for the persons family.

They played it straight and got shafted.
 
A fairly well off relative of mine ( 3 bed house by the sea all paid off and the same amount in savings ) went into a care home and died soon after, the house was sold and all the proceeds and money was used up in fees, taxes, duties and expenses, not a penny left for the persons family.

They played it straight and got shafted.
Were they ever offered financial planning advice?
 
Some of the possible agenda behind all of this are fairly obvious.
  • Vaccinations
  • Monitoring of personal movements
  • Controlled demolition of the global economy into a second Great Depression (poor, psychologically broken people are easier to control)
  • Some kind of ID chipping or a step in that direction
  • A move towards making cash seem 'dangerous' or 'uncool'
  • Global food shortages, again another means of controlling populations
But I'm increasingly concerned that there may [also] be an agenda to destroy small businesses.

In the US, it sure looks like that. It's becoming rapidly clear that the small business loans are really hard to get which is either even more naive, administrative incompetence, or part of a co-ordinated Machiavellian plan to take out Middle America.

As a standalone item, this hasn't been mentioned all that much. But it will be in the days and weeks to come, and quickly, too. Watch the political storm in the US heat up, fast. There are going to be some open shouting matches on prime time news TV.

All this is because paradoxically and nonsensically, if you don't already have a loan with a bank, you're ineligible. Go figure. It almost makes zero sense whatsoever unless there was a deliberate sabotage effort to make it near-impossible.

The more I stare at this slow-motion catastrophe, the more I see very bad times ahead indeed.
But then, there is always 5 May 1789.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Whatever the rights or wrongs of doing it or the current policy allowances, in practical terms, one thing to avoid while scamming the state would be to post about it on an open forum under the title "scamming the state" from an account which has ~1000 posts from (unless you have been very careful for a long time) a set of IP addresses which are linked to your real name. Seems like that would be a disqualifying factor. Doing it on a forum with lots of current and ex-plod, even more so.

It's not incredibly likely (but stranger things have happened, local councils spent a decade abusing this particular set of powers) but if at some point they are directed to dragnet benefit offenders, all the police would have to do is send a legal notice to the COs demanding the IP addresses linked to your account, match that up to the records of the ISP or phone company, and there you are. It's a lot easier for them to get the authorisation for that if you've stated intent or commission, which you did in the first post.

General rule, if you're thinking about committing a crime, don't announce it online first.
 

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