Saudi Journalist Disappears in Saudi Consulate in Turkey

Let's not. You're drawing cultural parallels that are, at best, naive and ignoring the massive cultural and religious differences behind any and all revolutions in the Middle East.
Nor, rather obviously, do the rulers in the KSA and elsewhere in the Middle East. That's a totally different possibility, though, to a future revolution by "intellectuals' ... - businesmen, lawyers, journalists, officers, scientists, doctors, teachers...".

Just because Che, for example, was an intellectual and a doctor, that's no reason to think that that was a 'trend' for revolutionaries or that it applies to the Middle East any more than it applied in Asia.
If I uderstand you correctly then...
All the people like us are we, and everyone else is They
Asia is not going to be civilized after the methods of the West. There is too much Asia and she is too old.
Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet
As for Che then at time he was indeed a symbol of the trend that is not faded completely even now. There are governments in Latin America that still follow the trend.
 
If I uderstand you correctly then...
Редьярд Киплинг — Викицитатник
More apposite for you:
Let it be clearly understood that the Russian is a delightful person till he tucks in his shirt. As an Oriental he is charming. It is only when he insists upon being treated as the most easterly of western peoples instead of the most westerly of easterns that he becomes a racial anomaly extremely difficult to handle. The host never knows which side of his nature is going to turn up next.
 
Trump's statement's finally out and "Maybe he did, maybe he didn't!"

... so, as widely predicted, it's business as usual and no action will be taken against the KSA or MbS, and the only "sanctions" will be against the 17 individuals named, which consists of blocking any property they have in the US and banning them from travelling to the US. Since none are reported to have any property in the US and all are already banned from leaving the KSA, most have been arrested and five are likely to be executed, it's hard to know how any will notice the US "sanctions".
 
There are reports that there is a group in the Saudi royal family who are trying to prevent Mohammed bin Salman from becoming king.
Some Saudi royals turn against crown prince after Khashoggi murder | CBC News
Amid the international uproar over the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, some members of Saudi Arabia's ruling family are agitating to prevent Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman from becoming king, three sources close to the royal court said.
Dozens of princes and cousins from powerful branches of the Al Saud family want to see a change in the line of succession but would not act while King Salman — the crown prince's 82-year-old father — is still alive, the sources said.
They are backing the younger brother of King Salman, Prince Ahmed bin Abdulaziz.
Rather, they are discussing the possibility with other family members that after the king's death, Prince Ahmed bin Abdulaziz, 76, a younger full brother of King Salman and uncle of the crown prince, could take the throne, according to the sources.
Prince Ahmed would have the support of family members, the security apparatus, and some western powers.
Prince Ahmed, King Salman's only surviving full brother, would have the support of family members, the security apparatus and some Western powers, one of the Saudi sources said.
Ahmed had opposed the rise of Mohamed bin Salman.
Prince Ahmed returned to Riyadh in October after two and a half months abroad. During the trip, he appeared to criticize the Saudi leadership while responding to protesters outside a London residence chanting for the downfall of the Al Saud dynasty. He was one of only three people on the Allegiance Council, made up of the ruling family's senior members, who opposed MbS becoming crown prince in 2017, two Saudi sources said at the time.
There is no automatic line of succession in Saudi Arabia. Instead, a successor must have the support of the major branches of the Saudi royal family.

Ahmed would not reverse social or economic reforms and would honour existing arms contracts. Ahmed was deputy interior minister for nearly 40 years.
These Saudi sources said they were confident that Prince Ahmed would not change or reverse any of the social or economic reforms enacted by MbS, would honour existing military procurement contracts and would restore the unity of the family.
US officials have told the Saudis that they would support Ahmed as the successor.
Senior U.S. officials have indicated to Saudi advisers in recent weeks that they would support Prince Ahmed, who was deputy interior minister for nearly 40 years, as a potential successor, according to Saudi sources with direct knowledge of the consultations.
While Mohamed bin Salman had other princes arrested and stripped of their wealth, he meanwhile spent large sums on palaces, a $500 million yacht, and spent a record amount of money on a Leonardo Da Vinci painting.
Some 30 other princes were also arrested, mistreated, humiliated and stripped of their wealth, even as MbS splashed out on palaces, a $500-million yacht and the purchase of a painting by Leonardo Da Vinci that set a new record in the international art market.
Mohamed bin Salman has built a new $2 billion palace in a remote part of Saudi Arabia with the apparent intention of isolating the current king from the affairs of state (the story refers to it as a "gilded cage").
Despite the controversy over Khashoggi's killing, MbS is continuing to pursue his agenda.
Some insiders believe he built his father a new but remote Red Sea palace in Sharma, at the Neom City development site — thrown up in a record one year at a cost of $2 billion — as a gilded cage for his retirement.
The site is isolated, the closest city of Tabouk more than 100 kilometres away. Residence there would keep the king out of the loop on most affairs of state, one of the sources close to the royal family said.
The plan for sidelining Mohamed bin Salman appears to be to leave things as they are for now, but when the present king dies or can no longer rule, Mohamed would be removed from the line of succession.
When the king dies or is no longer be able to rule, the 34-member Allegiance Council, a body representing each line of the ruling family to lend legitimacy to succession decisions, would not automatically declare MbS the new king.

Even as crown prince, MbS would still need the council to ratify his ascension, one of the three Saudi sources said. While the council accepted King Salman's wish to make MbS crown prince, it would not necessarily accept MbS becoming king when his father dies, especially given that he sought to marginalize council members.
This is a very interesting development, and I suspect that it is unlikely that Mohamed bin Salman will let this threat to his power pass unchallenged.
 
As for Wheat production then it is too expensive in Saudi Arabia. It is impossible to compete on this market with US/Canada/Argentina/Russia.
Yes, indeed Saudi economy is oil based. But it is not right to suggest that Saudi Arabia reached natural borders in development of its economy, that oil forever will remain its the only base.

As for Canada then famous expression springs in mind - Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Economy of Canada - Wikipedia

So is it right to suggest that Canadian economy is 'services based'? Yes and no. Because mainly you are unable to export services.

Yes, the retail sector contributes to Canadian GDP a lot but has zero export potential. As for export then

As export is essentially important for Canadian economy then we see that in fact oil sector with its relatively modest contribution to the GDP is one of the corner stones of Canadian economy because many other sectors (including the retail sector) are this or that way connected to or/and dependent on the oil sector.
The situation in Russian economy is the same
Economy of Russia - Wikipedia

But Russian economy is essentially oil-gas based.

Let's suppose that sizes of oil-gas sectors in Canadian, Russian, Saudi economies will not change in the near future but its share will fall.
Now respective shares look this way
Canada - 7%
Russia - 16%
KSA - 45%
It is not something absolutely unthinkable that Russia in coming years will approach to Canadian level. 10-11% look as a proper target. But it means 50% growth of GDP.
The KSA has potential to approach to the Russian current level and even 30% share of oil sector would mean 50% growth of GDP as well.
So, really the KSA has reserves to expand its economy, made services as its main component.

PS. I have forgotten about cannabis. Now Canada has good prospects to expand cannabis related sector of economy.
Non-medical cannabis was worth $3.3 billion to Canada's economy in 2016: StatCan
The point really is that the Saudi Arabian economy is not as diversified as you had originally implied. They are almost totally dependent upon oil. Diversifying the economy will be a major task that will take decades, if it can be done at all.
 
The point really is that the Saudi Arabian economy is not as diversified as you had originally implied. They are almost totally dependent upon oil. Diversifying the economy will be a major task that will take decades, if it can be done at all.
Of course I agree with it. And of course Saudi economy is not diversified at all - too far from it. I made another point. For this reason Saudi economy has room to expand in other directions - trade, banking, services, tourism, agricultural sector. The KSA is surrounded by not so wealthy countries with cheap workforce. With Saudi currency reserves it is a good base to develop mining, chemical industry, manufacturing and so on. So Saudi Arabia has not reached natural borders in developing of its economy.

Trump Affirms U.S. Relationship With Saudis Despite Khashoggi Murder - The Atlantic
Trump has used strikingly similar terms to defend Russia and to cast doubt on the crown prince’s culpability in Khashoggi’s killing. Just as with Russian meddling, he has broached alternative explanations
He has declared the denials of the accused malefactors, whether Vladimir Putin or Mohammed bin Salman, credible.
The White House’s Tuesday statement was striking for its implication that, whatever the truth of the crown prince’s involvement, it didn’t really matter.
The Trump administration has made the kingdom a pillar of its entire Middle East strategy, and has invested in cultivating the young crown prince, who, if he succeeds his father as king, could lead the Middle East’s largest oil producer for many decades to come.
Hardly anybody is surprised. Nothing new.
Anastasio Somoza García - Wikipedia
President Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR) supposedly remarked in 1939 that "Somoza may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch."
Apparently MbS is "our son of bitch" unlike pres.Putin who is viewed from Washington of course as "son of bitch" but unfortunately not "our".
 
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As a BBC news reporter pointed out: "Trump is refreshingly honest" and by inference less hypocritical, than all the other western politicians.. He doesn't pretend they didn't do it, but just doesn't care enough to kick up a fuss to please the progressive bleeding hearts.
 
As a BBC news reporter pointed out: "Trump is refreshingly honest" and by inference less hypocritical, than all the other western politicians.. He doesn't pretend they didn't do it, but just doesn't care enough to kick up a fuss to please the progressive bleeding hearts.
Do you have a link for that, to put it in context?
 
Do you have a link for that, to put it in context?
<snigger> You'll soon learn that asking for a link is a wasted effort.
 
<snigger> You'll soon learn that asking for a link is a wasted effort.
I somehow thought it would be. I had a root around too, and in fact there's no record of any "BBC news reporter " having said anything like that, and the only record of it in the media is an an obscure comment to another comment in an alt-right blog about a NYT article on Hilary Clinton, and even then it's in the very limited context that "Trump is refreshingly honest about not being a member of the working class or middle class but yet not condescending to them" and it was made prior to Trump being elected President.

I've got a lot of sympathy with anyone calling most politicians hypocritical, western or otherwise, but the idea that a BBC News reporter said that Trump's "refreshingly honest" and meant it has about as much credibility as the idea that MbS knew nothing about Khasoggi's murder.
 
I somehow thought it would be. I had a root around too, and in fact there's no record of any "BBC news reporter " having said anything like that, and the only record of it in the media is an an obscure comment to another comment in an alt-right blog about a NYT article on Hilary Clinton, and even then it's in the very limited context that "Trump is refreshingly honest about not being a member of the working class or middle class but yet not condescending to them" and it was made prior to Trump being elected President.

I've got a lot of sympathy with anyone calling most politicians hypocritical, western or otherwise, but the idea that a BBC News reporter said that Trump's "refreshingly honest" and meant it has about as much credibility as the idea that MbS knew nothing about Khasoggi's murder.
I checked the BBC news website and all the broadcasts are marked unavailable, don't know what you expect me to do about it, or why you want to make an issue of it. All the journo said was its refreshing and it is honest.

Unless you want to make a thing of it because you don't want to accept Trump is more honest with regards Saudi than any other gobshite waffling western politician.
 
Reading peter hitchens he makes a similar point to the one I was trying to make.... Faux Outrage and continuing to sell arms makes us look silly. At least trump is upfront and honest, we want to make some cash.

Hopefully, if we get stuck in some future conflict and are claiming the moral high ground, then this whataboutery will be remembered. I have no problem with wars, but the real reasons should be explained and debated and not simply packaged and sold to the people on lies.
 
Reading peter hitchens he makes a similar point to the one I was trying to make.... Faux Outrage and continuing to sell arms makes us look silly. At least trump is upfront and honest, we want to make some cash.
Except Trump's very clearly made exactly the same "outrage" statements ("terrible ... horrible" etc) as everyone else, whether "Faux" or genuine, and is still "continuing to sell arms" just like most others!

The only difference is that he's said he disagrees with his own intelligence agencies and he's exaggerated the arms sales he claims to have been responsible for making to the KSA last year from a maximum of $14.5bn, assuming all unsigned deals are agreed which is unlikely, to a totally baseless $110bn, with total sales he claims credit for of a laughable $450bn.

The reality is that the US sells more to Switzerland than it does to Saudi Arabia.

That may not make him look any more or any less "silly" than anyone else, but whatever else it does it doesn't make him look "upfront and honest" when he's previously said "Saudi Arabia, I get along with all of them. They buy apartments from me. They spend $40 million, $50 million ...I make a lot of money from them. ...They buy all sorts of my stuff. All kinds of toys from Trump. They pay me millions and hundred of millions."

There are plenty of very current examples of things that are "simply packaged and sold to the people on lies" by politicians, as well as plenty of people who are dumb enough to fall for them, and this is as good an example as any of both.
 
Except Trump's very clearly made exactly the same "outrage" statements ("terrible ... horrible" etc) as everyone else, whether "Faux" or genuine, and is still "continuing to sell arms" just like most others!

The only difference is that he's said he disagrees with his own intelligence agencies and he's exaggerated the arms sales he claims to have been responsible for making to the KSA last year from a maximum of $14.5bn, assuming all unsigned deals are agreed which is unlikely, to a totally baseless $110bn, with total sales he claims credit for of a laughable $450bn.

The reality is that the US sells more to Switzerland than it does to Saudi Arabia.

That may not make him look any more or any less "silly" than anyone else, but whatever else it does it doesn't make him look "upfront and honest" when he's previously said "Saudi Arabia, I get along with all of them. They buy apartments from me. They spend $40 million, $50 million ...I make a lot of money from them. ...They buy all sorts of my stuff. All kinds of toys from Trump. They pay me millions and hundred of millions."

There are plenty of very current examples of things that are "simply packaged and sold to the people on lies" by politicians, as well as plenty of people who are dumb enough to fall for them, and this is as good an example as any of both.
You missed my point, the upfront and honest bit was Trump worships money and doesn't seem to bother with any pretence about it. He would sell the first born of the US to the devil if he offered him enough money.
 
You missed my point, the upfront and honest bit was Trump worships money and doesn't seem to bother with any pretence about it. He would sell the first born of the US to the devil if he offered him enough money.
I agree with you there, but just because his self-interest is so obvious and his lies so transparent hardly makes him 'upfront and honest' - just a bad liar.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
You've missed it, probably gratuitously. Trump knows that US voters rate the economy and jobs higher than what goes on abroad.
 

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