Saudi Journalist Disappears in Saudi Consulate in Turkey

In short - Kha.. Shog...What?...Gi was murdered and highly likely mutilated?... Big deal. Let's forget about it and ... business as usual.
 
Begs the question as LE (?) or someone else said why couldn’t the ‘victim’ insisted paperwork be done in the DC embassy with an entourage as it’s home territory and safer in numbers. Too many variables, too many obvious (2 x GV and their ‘specialist ‘ occupants) there I say it - ‘distractions’?
"LE" ??

Asked several times by several posters, myself included. If they wanted to get married in Turkey, though, he had no option but to get the divorce papers from the Consulate in Turkey; that's a Turkish regulation and it's normal for most countries where foreigners are getting married to require the paperwork to be from the relevant Embassy / Consulate in that country.

That doesn't answer the many questions over Khashoggi's actions, however, which make absolutely no sense at all, particularly given his experience, the threats he'd received and the warnings he'd been. It's seriously hard to believe he was that foolhardy, that stupid, and that irrational:
  • Why did he want to get married in Turkey, knowing the risk was so much greater in the Consulate there, than in the States? He'd only known his fiancee four months, and she'd been in Turkey all that time while he'd been in the US and UK for much of it, and she could just as easily and far more safely have gone to the US to get married.
  • Why was he in such a rush? The wedding was due the following day, so he barely had any time to get the papers from the Consulate officially translated and certified.
  • Why did he not take anyone with him into the Consulate or arrange to have some reporters waiting outside?
  • Why did he tell his fiancee to only raise the alarm if he failed to come out by 5pm, after four hours, when the Consulate closed at 3pm and his appointment should have only taken a few minutes?
  • Why did he tell his fiancee to wait outside in the street for four hours, not to go in with him?
  • Why, if his appointment was at 1pm, did he wait outside in the street for 20 minutes until he was 15 minutes late? Or why, if his appointment was at 1:30 pm and he arrived half an hour early, did he not wait inside or go for a coffee instead of waiting outside.
Nothing he did makes any sense at

Also at Airbus Helicopters Deutschland facility in my other neck of the woods plus Manchung Flight Test Center - there is flight tests of the Saudi Ministry of Interior new H145. They have ordered several H145.

Cheers

Helionline.de - German Helicopters
All German weapons export licences are actually currently on hold pending the the outcome of the ongoing investigations.
 
(...) Why did he want to get married in Turkey, knowing the risk was so much greater in the Consulate there, than in the States? He'd only known his fiancee four months, and she'd been in Turkey all that time while he'd been in the US and UK for much of it, and she could just as easily and far more safely have gone to the US to get married.
Why do you believe it is dangerous for people to go into a Saudi consulate unless they are in the US? Have you long believed that the Saudis routinely carve up people with bone saws in their consulates in NATO countries? Are people safe going into the Saudi embassy in London?

Why was he in such a rush? The wedding was due the following day, so he barely had any time to get the papers from the Consulate officially translated and certified.
He started the paperwork in plenty of time before the wedding. The staff at the consulate told him to come back on another date which they selected when he could pick up the paperwork. He left Turkey and went to a scheduled conference in London and came back to Istanbul just before the wedding.

Nothing he did makes any sense at
It only makes no sense if you assume that the Saudis routinely use their diplomatic properties to conduct kidnappings and murders. If you assume that, then why should we allow the Saudis to have any embassies or consulates at all?
 
  • Why did he tell his fiancee to wait outside in the street for four hours, not to go in with him?
It's been assumed (or is known from his fiancée) that he didn't want to have to hand in his mobile phone as he entered. I'm guessing, but that could have been because a) it held stuff he didn't want them to get their grubby paws on, b) he wanted it to relay sound from his watch (discussed at length up-thread), c) he considered the consulate security to be a bunch of sticky-fingered tea-leaves or d) all of the above.
 
It's been assumed (or is known from his fiancée) that he didn't want to have to hand in his mobile phone as he entered. I'm guessing, but that could have been because a) it held stuff he didn't want them to get their grubby paws on, b) he wanted it to relay sound from his watch (discussed at length up-thread), c) he considered the consulate security to be a bunch of sticky-fingered tea-leaves or d) all of the above.
A number of news reports said it is routine in consulates in the Middle East for people to not be allowed to carry mobile phones in with them. If he had to hand his phone in at the front desk, he no doubt expected for it to be "lost" while the Saudis sent it off to Riyadh to suck all the information out of it. It was a sensible precaution.
 
A number of news reports said it is routine in consulates in the Middle East for people to not be allowed to carry mobile phones in with them. If he had to hand his phone in at the front desk, he no doubt expected for it to be "lost" while the Saudis sent it off to Riyadh to suck all the information out of it. It was a sensible precaution.
That was my take on it.
 
The Turks said that officials from a number of countries, including Saudi Arabia, the US, Germany, France, and the UK have heard the tapes of Khashoggi being killed. This was previously leaked to the press, but has now been officially confirmed by Turkey.
"We gave them the tapes. We gave them to Saudi Arabia, to America, to the Germans, the French, to the British, to all of them," Erdogan said before departing for Paris to attend ceremonies marking the 100th anniversary of the end of the First World War.
"They [Saudi officials] also listened to the conversations and they know. There is no need to distort this. They know for certain who among the 15 is the killer or are the killers," he said.
Turkey accused Saudi Arabia of using "delaying tactics" to obstruct the investigation.
Erdogan accused Saudi Arabia's chief prosecutor, who was sent to Istanbul last month as part of a joint probe, of employing "delaying tactics."
"Saudi Arabia needs to accept that [the killer] is among the 18 and needs to get rid of the suspicion by responding to Turkey's good will and acting fairly," Erdogan said.
 
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Canadian intelligence officials have heard the recording of Khashoggi being killed, according to PM Trudeau.
Canadian intelligence officials have heard audio of Khashoggi killing, Trudeau says | CBC News
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canadian intelligence officials have listened to a recording of the killing of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.
He also said that Canadian intelligence are working "very closely" with their Turkish counterparts on this.
Trudeau is the first leader to officially confirm that his country's intelligence had listened to the audio. He said Canada's intelligence agencies had been working "very closely" with Turkish intelligence on Khashoggi's killing.
Trudeau brought the subject up in a phone call with Erdogan, and also again when they met in Paris this past weekend.
Trudeau said he brought up the subject during a recent phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and again when the two met this weekend in Paris.
However, he wouldn't comment with respect to questions on what Canada planned to do about this situation, other than to say that Canada was in discussion with like minded allies on the subject. I suspect this means that Canada will not be taking any unilateral actions in this regards.
"We continue to be engaged with our allies on the investigation into accountability for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, and we are in discussion with our like-minded allies as to next steps towards Saudi Arabia," he said.
There is a press conference video from France with the news story, but it covers a wide range of subjects as well as the Khashoggi incident, and doesn't seem to have any relevant information beyond what is above, and so is probably not worth listening to.
 
Why do you believe it is dangerous for people to go into a Saudi consulate unless they are in the US? Have you long believed that the Saudis routinely carve up people with bone saws in their consulates in NATO countries? Are people safe going into the Saudi embassy in London?
What bizarre questions! You seem to be losing your grasp on reality.

What I "believe" is irrelevant. What's relevant is what Khashoggi believed, which according to all those who claim to have known him well who've commented is that he believed he was safe going to the Embassy in Washington but that he didn't believe he or others were, by comparison, in other Embassies or Consulates.
He started the paperwork in plenty of time before the wedding.
Utter, absolute rubbish. He applied to the Consulate on Friday 28 September and was told to come back to collect the paperwork two working days later on Tuesday 2 October. That's not only the time taken clearly shown on Saudi Embassy websites but the sort of time routinely taken by most other countries' Embassies world-wide; some can take up to two months.

The wedding was to be the following day, October 3, leaving minimal time for the paperwork to be translated by a certified translator, notarised, and approved by the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs or the local Governor's office which can reportedly take up to six weeks.

"plenty of time" ? Only if you haven't bothered to check the requirements, as Khashoggi doesn't appear to have done and you all too obviously haven't.
It only makes no sense if you assume that the Saudis routinely use their diplomatic properties to conduct kidnappings and murders. If you assume that, then why should we allow the Saudis to have any embassies or consulates at all?
Well, that's one option.

Alternatively it makes no sense if you read what Khashoggi's written: that he believed abductions had taken place, that he wasn't safe in the Consulate, and that he'd been told that, repeatedly.
 
It's been assumed (or is known from his fiancée) that he didn't want to have to hand in his mobile phone as he entered. I'm guessing, but that could have been because a) it held stuff he didn't want them to get their grubby paws on, b) he wanted it to relay sound from his watch (discussed at length up-thread), c) he considered the consulate security to be a bunch of sticky-fingered tea-leaves or d) all of the above.
It's standard practice in many embassies world-wide that you have to hand in mobiles, including the British.

My point wasn't just that he told her to wait outside in the street for four hours before doing anything, two hours after the Consulate closed, but that he'd reportedly been told countless times that he was at risk and he's said that he knew he was at risk but he apparently did nothing, absolutely nothing, to mitigate that risk.

He had countless options, from having other reporters visibly taking photos of him going in, to leaving his phone with another friend outside while his fiancee and others went in with him ....
but he apparently took no precautions at all.

Why? Why, knowing the risks which he clearly did and not being a complete moron which he very clearly isn't, would he do nothing and not take even the simplest precautions?

Why was the only "sensible precaution" he took nothing more than giving his fiancee his mobile?
 
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The Turks said that officials from a number of countries, including Saudi Arabia, the US, Germany, France, and the UK have heard the tapes of Khashoggi being killed. This was previously leaked to the press, but has now been officially confirmed by Turkey.
What the Turks and Erdogan haven't done, though, is confirm which version of the tapes they said they'd passed on, or why if the event was recorded there were three very different versions of what happened:
  1. The first version where Khashoggi was dragged out of the Consul's office by two of the 'hit squad' and mistakenly given an overdose of an anaesthetic, which killed him. or ...
  2. The second version where Khashoggi was tortured on the Consul's desk, had his fingers cut off, screaming, and was told to 'shut up or he'd be killed', and was then dismembered alive. or ...
  3. The latest version where he was strangled as soon as he entered the Consulate.
Meanwhile a report in the Turkish media showing what's claimed to be x-rays of the 'hit-team's' cases including two defibrillators is being widely repeated elsewhere.

Edit: but, as some of the media have remarked, surprisingly no sign of the much-reported bone-saw.
 
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The Saudis have said they will seek the death penalty for 5 of those involved in the Khashoggi affair.
Saudis seek death penalty in Khashoggi killing as U.S. imposes new sanctions | CBC News
Saudi Arabia's top prosecutor said Thursday he would seek the death penalty for five men charged with the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Turkey, while the United States moved to sanction 17 Saudi officials it said were involved in the slaying.
The Saudis appear to be trying to put distance between the killers and bin Salman.
The Saudi announcement appeared aimed at distancing the killers and their operation from the kingdom's leadership, including Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, amid a global outcry over the writer's death.
And now the western sanctions against. Saudi Arabia are being lined up. The US announced a list of Saudi officials who will be sanctioned.
U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin on Thursday announced the new economic sanctions, which will target officials the Treasury Department believes were responsible for or complicit in the killing.

Among those targeted by the economic sanctions are Saud al-Qahtani, who was one of the crown prince's closest aides, and Mohammed al-Otaibi, the diplomat in charge of the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul where Khashoggi was killed Oct. 2. Also named is Maher Mutreb, who was part of the crown prince's entourage on trips abroad.
Canada said they will be announcing a similar list soon.
Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland on Thursday welcomed U.S. sanctions and said Canada was will be "actively considering" similar sanctions in coming days.
 
Further to the above story, the Saudi chief prosecutor said that 11 people have been referred to trial, and that he would seek the death penalty against 5 of them.
Chief prosecutor Saud Al-Mojeb said that of the 21 people in custody, 11 have been indicted and referred to trial, and that he would seek the death penalty against five of the suspects.
The Saudi prosecutor also said that Khashoggi was drugged and killed in the consulate before being dismembered and the body handed over to a local collaborator for disposal. This agrees with what the Turks have been saying about it.
Khashoggi's killers set their plans in motion on Sept. 29, the prosecutor said, adding that the killers drugged and killed the writer in the consulate before dismembering the body and handing it over for disposal by an unidentified local collaborator. The body has not been found.
 
And now the western sanctions against. Saudi Arabia are being lined up. The US announced a list of Saudi officials who will be sanctioned.
Canada said they will be announcing a similar list soon.
Hardly "sanctions against Saudi Arabia", but I'm sure those individuals fired, arrested, and to be executed will be particularly upset about being sanctioned by the US and Canada as well ...
The Saudi prosecutor also said that Khashoggi was drugged and killed in the consulate before being dismembered and the body handed over to a local collaborator for disposal. This agrees with what the Turks have been saying about it.
Actually it doesn't agree with what the Turks have been saying about it at all.

The Turks have been going with the strangled not drugged line for a while (their third version) and have never gone for the "local collaborator" line, which they've questioned since the KSA introduced it.

Pretty well the only points they agree on are that he was killed in the Consulate by those flown in for the task then dismembered.
 
Memorial services were held for Khashoggi by friends and family in both Turkey and Saudi Arabia.
Jamal Khashoggi remembered by thousands in Saudi Arabia, Turkey | CBC News
Family and friends of Jamal Khashoggi said funeral prayers in Saudi Arabia and Turkey on Friday for the Saudi journalist killed by Saudi government agents, in a case that has sparked a global outcry and mired the kingdom in crisis.
The lack of a body to bury is likely to not go down well with many Muslims.
For weeks, Khashoggi's family has urged Saudi and Turkish authorities to find his remains and hand them over for burial, but the Saudi prosecutor said their whereabouts are unknown.

Islamic tradition places immense importance on the proper handling of the dead, mandating quick burial. The revelation that the body was dismembered has thus been particularly disturbing.
Most of the rest of the story is a recap of the events so far.
 
According to the Washington Post the "CIA concludes Saudi crown prince ordered Jamal Khashoggi’s assassination".

One of the key pieces of supporting evidence was that "In reaching its conclusions, the CIA examined multiple sources of intelligence, including a phone call that the prince’s brother Khalid bin Salman, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, had with Khashoggi, according to the people familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the intelligence. Khalid told Khashoggi, a contributing columnist to The Washington Post, that he should go to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to retrieve the documents and gave him assurances that it would be safe to do so."

Prince Khalid bin Salman, however, has not only denied that any such phone call took place, denied that he gave him any such advice, and denied that he had any contact at all with Khashoggi for a year (since October 2017) but has openly challenged the CIA to provide any evidence of such a phone call:

"As we told the Washington Post the last contact I had with Mr. Khashoggi was via text on Oct 26 2017. I never talked to him by phone and certainly never suggested he go to Turkey for any reason. I ask the US government to release any information regarding this claim."

This was later confirmed on Twitter, where the Ambassador also claimed they had asked the Turks for similar evidence from Khashoggi's phone records - all with no response from the CIA or the Turks, even though this should have been some of the simplest evidence to produce.

It's unfortunate that the Washington Post failed to include the response in their article, but it's rather more unfortunate that the Turks (and now the CIA) are unable or unwilling to produce the most basic evidence they claim to have.

(..... and phone records can't, under any circumstances, be considered to compromise intelligence sources)
 
In short - Kha.. Shog...What?...Gi was murdered and highly likely mutilated?... Big deal. Let's forget about it and ... business as usual.
That's certainly Vlad's way in respect of killing people on our streets.
 
And here's the CBC's report on bin Salman's involvement in the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. CIA concludes Saudi prince ordered Khashoggi killing: officials | CBC News
The CIA believes Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul, a source familiar with the matter said on Friday, in a finding that contradicts Saudi government assertions that he was not involved.
The Saudis have denied it.
"The claims in this purported assessment is false," a spokesperson for the Saudi Embassy in Washington said in a statement. "We have and continue to hear various theories without seeing the primary basis for these speculations."
US officials have been skeptical that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman would not have known about plans to kill Khashoggi, given the importance of what was taking place. The CIA based this conclusion on multiple sources of intelligence.
U.S. officials have been skeptical that the prince would not have known about plans to kill Khashoggi, given his power in Saudi Arabia.

The Washington Post, citing people familiar with the matter, reported the CIA concluded bin Salman ordered the killing after the agency examined multiple sources of intelligence, including a phone call that the prince's brother Khalid bin Salman — the Saudi ambassador to the United States — had with Khashoggi.
Mohammed bin Salman's brother Khalid told Khashoggi in a phone call that he would be safe if he went to the Saudi embassy in Istanbul to get the documents required for marriage. Khalid bin Salman made the call at his brother's direction, but it is not clear if Khalid knew that Khashoggi was going to be killed.
Khalid told Khashoggi he should go to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to retrieve the documents and gave him assurances that it would be safe to do so, the Post said.

The newspaper, citing people familiar with the call, said it was not clear if Khalid knew Khashoggi would be killed but that he made the call at his brother's direction.
Khalid bin Salman has denied having talked to Khashoggi.
"I never talked to him by phone and certainly never suggested he go to Turkey for any reason. I ask the US government to release any information regarding this claim," Prince Khalid said.
The CIA also said there was a phone call made from inside the Saudi consulate by Maher Mutreb, a security official often seen near Mohammed bin Salman, to Saud al-Qahtani, a top aid to bin Salman, telling him the operation was complete.
The Post said the CIA also examined a call from inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul after Khashoggi's killing.

Maher Mutreb, a security official who has often been seen at the crown prince's side, made the call to Saud al-Qahtani, a top aide to the crown prince, to inform him the operation had been completed, the Post said, citing people familiar with the call.
 

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