Saudi Journalist Disappears in Saudi Consulate in Turkey

If a detailed recording of the events surrounding the murder exists, then it puts the Turks in a very strong position. Neither the Saudis nor Trump want anything that is too damning and which might hinder a continuation of the mutually beneficial status quo.

Both sides would prefer that the KSA only fessed up to a cosmetically enhanced version of events that could be accepted by Trump. He could then go through the motions of expressing disapproval and issue a limited symbolic censure. Honour would have been satisfied and an early resumption of normal jogging would soon follow.

The Turks are fully aware that this would be the preferred outcome. If the Turks are holding evidence of something far more damning, they are in a very strong bargaining position with both the KSA and the US. So far they have released just enough to force the Saudis to recant their initial blank denial of everything and admit that Khashoggi did in fact die inside the consulate building.

There are only two reasons that occur to me why the release of the really sexy stuff has so far been withheld. Either it does not exist or else it is being held back as a very useful bargaining chip.
'Why?' to everything.

While it's not yet clear, if (and I emphasise 'if') the KSA and USA joint line is that this is all down to "rogue elements" acting on their own, without official approval, sanction or even knowledge, then what difference does it make what the "rogue elements" did?

... if you were wanting to bury any chance of MbS being implicated wouldn't it be better to have an excuse to literally bury those involved?
 
Take that up with the foreign office.

You got any diplomats here left by the way? or did they all get kicked out for "activites incompatible"?

;)
But in the case that I have mentioned the representative of FCO was on the spot. She protested, she said the policmen that they violate the Vienna convention about diplomatic relations.
Don't you think that the police should be instructed not to violate the Vienna convention?
 
But in the case that I have mentioned the representative of FCO was on the spot. She protested, she said the policm
And you apparently got your apology from our head of government

Surely that is enough for even a country with your obvious national inferiority complex?
 
And you apparently got your apology from our head of government

Surely that is enough for even a country with your obvious national inferiority complex?
But do you think that it would be acceptable if Russian police would detain British ambassador in Moscow, conduct body search and then mssrs.Putin and Medvedev would just bring apologies?
 
But do you think that it would be acceptable if Russian police would detain British ambassador in Moscow, conduct body search and then mssrs.Putin and Medvedev would just bring apologies?
Anything less than extra-judicial killing is a bonus really dealing with your mob, isn't it?

;)
 
@John G you just can’t help yourself can you? I recently thought we were seeing a new poster, as you have generally been engaging and reasonable, but once again for some reason you are reverting to ad hominems and diverting an excellent thread.
Does it really matter that much that you and another poster are at odds with the various media links out there?
Can’t you stick to the matter at hand and accept other opinions instead of forensically dissecting every post? :?
It doesn't matter at all ... that's the point I've been attempting to make with my last post on the subject and which I attempted to make before with my posts with @ThelmatheBelmer, on the same subject, where I think we agreed to disagree perfectly amicably, with a joke on both sides, and where I thought that very minor point was ended as we both moved on.

Fair point, though, so point taken and my apologies.
 
Anything less than extra-judicial killing is a bonus really dealing with your mob, isn't it?

;)
Dura Lex Sed Lex
HMG signed Vienna convention. Thus it must follow it. And all governmental agencies, law enforcement structures should follow it without any exceptions.

Or maybe the police in the UK is a state in state and must not follow international agreements, treaties and conventions.

Now let's recall you quote from the Bible about beam in the eye. So who has the beam in the eye?
 
Dura Lex Sed Lex
HMG signed Vienna convention. Thus it must follow it. And all governmental agencies, law enforcement structures should follow it without any exceptions.

Or maybe the police in the UK is a state in state and must not follow international agreements, treaties and conventions.

Now let's recall you quote from the Bible about beam in the eye. So who has the beam in the eye?
And I said you got an apology from the Head of Government.

Let's not argue. How about a nice cup of tea?
 
But do you think that it would be acceptable if Russian police would detain British ambassador in Moscow, conduct body search and then mssrs.Putin and Medvedev would just bring apologies?
An apology from "mssrs Putin and Medvedev" if the British ambassador was stopped near the Kremlin and given a quick pat down by an over-zealous Russian policeman?

That seems pretty reasonable. What would you prefer? Thirty years in the Gulag? A public execution? A declaration of war? A week with me on a desert island? Summary execution of the errant policeman on the spot by the FCO rep? Their public suicide by self-immolation?
 
And I said you got an apology from the Head of Government.

Let's not argue. How about a nice cup of tea?
Yes, it is a good idea. I have a choice only between Greenfield and Hyleys.
 
I find it quite plausable that a middle aged journo started a fight with 15 trained security types. I find it also quite plausable that they then panicked and chopped the body up and disposed of the bits in various woods in the area and then got the hell out of Dodge
D Trump
what I find disturbing is the fact that the americans and us are so far up the saudi arse (arms sales, oil and saudi invesment ) that nothing is going to happen to upset that balance.
 
An apology from "mssrs Putin and Medvedev" if the British ambassador was stopped near the Kremlin and given a quick pat down by an over-zealous Russian policeman?

That seems pretty reasonable. What would you prefer? Thirty years in the Gulag? A public execution? A declaration of war? A week with me on a desert island? Their public suicide by self-immolation?
I would like to note that such a situation is hardly possible. The police in Russia (my son served as police lieutenant a few years) is instructed how to deal with people that have diplomatic immunity.
As for the UK then I'm not sure.
 
I would like to recall a case happened with a Russian with very high diplomatic status. It happened in 2004.
Би-би-си | Россия | В Лондоне обыскали российского сенатора
Margelov Frisked by London Police | News
Russian senator Mikhail Margelov, a head of Russian Upper house commitee for foreign relations arrived to the UK according to invitation of the House of the Lords. Of course he had a diplomatic passport, belonged to top 20 Russian diplomats in the UK and he had Council of Europe ID card that provides personal immunity. He was walking being accompanied by a representative of the FCO but was detained just near DS10 and frisked by policemen that ignored his (and the FCO representative) explanation that it is a violation of diplomatic immunity and a violation of Vienna convention about diplomatic relations.
Mr.Margelov later received apologies from the House of Commons, from the House of Lords, from PM mr.Blair but ... not from Ian Blair, the head of Met.Police at time.
Vienna convetion is for diplomats. But British police has own rules.
Sergei, I call bullshitski. A diplomatic passport? He is a politician and wasn’t a diplomat and was not accredited to the Court of St James, therefore cannot exercise nor expect diplomatic privilege. I agree it was unfortunate that he was frisked as a VIP (I’ve seen members of the Royal Family frisked in foreign parts) but this does not constitute a breach of the Vienna Convention. Your man sounds like a very soft petal. Bless his hurt feelings.
 
Sergei, I call bullshitski. A diplomatic passport? He is a politician and wasn’t a diplomat and was not accredited to the Court of St James, therefore cannot exercise nor expect diplomatic privilege. I agree it was unfortunate that he was frisked as a VIP (I’ve seen members of the Royal Family frisked in foreign parts) but this does not constitute a breach of the Vienna Convention. Your man sounds like a very soft petal. Bless his hurt feelings.
No, you are not right. The Vienna convention in this case was violated.
BBC - Russian interviewed mr.Margelov.
Би-би- Ро | В Лондоне обыи ийо
BBC: Mikhail Margelov, you are the chairman of the international committee of the Federation Council - the upper chamber of the Russian parliament, that is, according to the table of ranks, enter the diplomatic "twenty"
If British PM visits Russia being officially invited then he (she) has diplomatic immunity. The same is true toward ministers, prominent British MPs. Mr.Margelov arrived to London after official invitation of the House of Lords.
Today, I presented the British policemen not only a diplomatic passport and reminded about the Convention on Diplomatic Relations of 1961, but also a certificate of a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe
...[that] gives immunity on territories of all member states of the Council of Europe... So I had besides diplomatic, also European parliamentary immunity.
...the lovely lady from the British Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Commonwealth Office, which accompanied me to the British Parliament was worried about what happened most of all. We walked along the street. Here she, in my opinion, worried and freaked out the most.
BBC: ...What now? Russian police to arrest at least an English diplomat, to somehow get even?
But it was rather anecdotal situation from point of view of mr.Margelov.
The strongest question was: "How do you identify yourself?"... He asked who am I: the British, Asian, African or other white. I said: "Probably, other white, but it sounds somehow colonialist." He says: "As it is written, so it sounds."
 
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Interesting and official statement from Turkish ruling party spokesman. I don't know though whether the comments mean 'we know what happened and will release the info' or (as they can be read) 'we are working to confirm what happened and will then release the info'.

From the BBC:

"Turkey will reveal whatever had happened," said Omer Celik of Turkey's ruling AKP party, according to Anadolu news agency.

"Nobody should ever doubt about it. We are not accusing anyone in advance but we don't accept anything to remain covered [up]."

Turkey 'to reveal all' on Khashoggi death
Omer Celik was the Europe Minister; he’s been to the UK a number of times and is a reasonable decent egg.
No, you are not right. The Vienna convention in this case was violated.
BBC - Russian interviewed mr.Margelov.
Би-би- Ро | В Лондоне обыи ийо

If British PM visits Russia being officially invited then he (she) has diplomatic immunity. The same is true toward ministers, prominent British MPs. Mr.Margelov arrived to London after official invitation of the House of Lords.




But it was rather anecdotal situation from point of view of mr.Margelov.
You are wrong. I have a very, very good working knowledge of the Convention. Heads of state and heads of government have de facto state immunity (hence the furore when Pinochet was detained at Heathrow). I have seen foreign ministers leaving the the UK being searched at the airport; likewise I’ve seen senior UK politicians and officials similarly treated entering other countries. As a diplomat I was routinely searched in two countries where I’ve been accredited. I didn’t cry about it.
 
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You are wrong. I have a very, very good working knowledge of the Convention.
I believe you.
Heads of state and heads of government have de facto state immunity
Acting ones ... maybe. Former ones are just private persons.
(hence the furore when Pinochet was detained at Heathrow).
That time he was a former president.
I have seen foreign ministers leaving the UK being searched at the airport;
As a tourists - maybe. But during official visit - I doubt.
likewise I’ve seen senior UK politicians and officials similarly treated entering other countries.
As tourists - maybe. But during official visit - I doubt.
As a diplomat I was routinely searched in two countries where I’ve been accredited.
But you may not agree.
I didn’t cry about it.
Right.
 
Trump says not satisfied with Saudi handling of Khashoggi death | Reuters
Trump now says he’s not satisfied with the Saudi response of sacking officials:
Asked during a trip to Nevada if he was satisfied that Saudi officials had been fired over Khashoggi’s death, Trump said: “No, I am not satisfied until we find the answer. But it was a big first step, it was a good first step. But I want to get to the answer.”
He apparently also said MbS was possibly unaware of the circumstances surrounding the death and obviously nobody has mentioned where the journalists body is:
Trump said it was possible that Prince Mohammed had been unaware of the circumstances around the death of Khashoggi, a Saudi national and U.S. resident.

Trump said no one seems to know where the journalist’s body is, adding that no one from his administration has seen video or a transcript of what happened inside the consulate.
Germany and France (plus Spain too but not in the article), aren’t satisfied with the Saudi response. I haven’t seen anything from the U.K. yet:
Germany and France on Saturday called Saudi Arabia’s explanation of how Khashoggi died incomplete.
E2A: FIt Italian chick also asking for a full investigation plus the headlines I’ve seen for other govt’s:
EU calls for thorough investigation into Khashoggi's death | Reuters
France's Le Drian condemns Khashoggi's killing, calls for in-depth investigation | Reuters
Spain 'dismayed' by Saudi reports on Khashoggi case | Reuters
Dutch PM Rutte calls for further investigation into Khashoggi's death | Reuters
U.N. secretary-general 'deeply troubled' by Saudi journalist's death | Reuters
 
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